Raise or call or fold...

[3rdCheckRaise]

40-80 game at the Borgata. Gentlemen to my left mostly play 20-40 and I can see that he is playing supper tight tonight and not really comfortable with stakes. He hasn’t been out of line, played 3-4 pots and only showed down big hands. UTG is a retarded LAG.
Two limps to me and I raise KK on the highjack, CO 3 bets, and all call. Flop 555 , checked to me and I bet, CO raises , UTG calls a bunch I 3 bet, CO 4 bets and UTG takes two more to the face. Turn is 4 and we check it to CO who bets, UTG now check raises and I think I have all options available to me…Raise or call or fold...

[27offsooot]

no cap PF??

i would call here, button is never folding AA if u three bet here, and LAG could have a 5. Just get to SD.

You misrepresented ur hand PF w/ no cap, so u still have button beat a lot, but he'll slow down even with AA now that UTG c/red.

[cgrohman]

I dont think fodling is an option unless you know that the only hand CO can have is AA. While I am always in favor of mindless agression, I call here and then re-evaluate after CO acts. Another line is to 3 bet that [censored] and then fold if CO 4 towns but I like calling better

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think fodling is an option unless you know that the only hand CO can have is AA. While I am always in favor of mindless agression, I call here and then re-evaluate after CO acts. Another line is to 3 bet that [censored] and then fold if CO 4 towns but I like calling better

[/ QUOTE ]

Please do not ever fold KK in this spot against someone with whom you have only played once. Here, OP is clearly ahead of the maniac's range, and CO has to have specifically AA. CO could easily have JJ, QQ, or even the other two KK a large percentage of the time.

Even seemingly tight players do goofy crap. Last night at the Borg 80 game, I sat to the right of a bad player who raised no more than 4 hands over the course of about 5 hours. A guy to my right raised, I 3-bet black QQ, bad player coldcaps and we all call. The flop was all low diamonds, I led all 3 streets, the bad player called down with who knows what, and MHIG.

Actually, no, please only do that against me so that I can run you over.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
40-80 game at the Borgata. Gentlemen to my left mostly play 20-40 and I can see that he is playing supper tight tonight and not really comfortable with stakes. He hasn’t been out of line, played 3-4 pots and only showed down big hands. UTG is a retarded LAG.
Two limps to me and I raise KK on the highjack, CO 3 bets, and all call. Flop 555 , checked to me and I bet, CO raises , UTG calls a bunch I 3 bet, CO 4 bets and UTG takes two more to the face. Turn is 4 and we check it to CO who bets, UTG now check raises and I think I have all options available to me…Raise or call or fold...

[/ QUOTE ]

By chance do you know names/physical descriptions of both of these guys? I play that game regularly and probably know at least one of them well.

[3rdCheckRaise]

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no cap PF??

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry...i did cap

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By chance do you know names/physical descriptions of both of these guys? I play that game regularly and probably know at least one of them well.


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I played this week for about 50 hours which is a bit more then i used to but not by much. Over those 50 hours there was no less then 3 regular Mid stakes posters at the table at all time. I think all the names should be excluded from posts for a lot of reasons unless the players involved would chime in themself. With that said, none of the players involved in this hand are regulars in that game and that made that decision mucg tougher.

[27offsooot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
no cap PF??

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry...i did cap


[/ QUOTE ]

I think that significantly increases the probability button has AA, but probably not enough so to fold IMO.

[blindside]

how about just calling the flop raise and donking any non-5 turn? you could lose the lag here to excessive flop action and possibly make up the sb on later streets given the board...

[drbk2]

Oh, I thought YOU were the retarded LAG, now it makes more sense! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I think this is a fold. I don't think it would be completely horrible to call but my experience in those weekend games with those ridiculous LAGs is that even they don't put in action on the turn against two obvious overpairs unless they have the nuts. Plus the guy to your left has AA almost everytime here.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, I thought YOU were the retarded LAG, now it makes more sense! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I think this is a fold. I don't think it would be completely horrible to call but my experience in those weekend games with those ridiculous LAGs is that even they don't put in action on the turn against two obvious overpairs unless they have the nuts. Plus the guy to your left has AA almost everytime here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume you've never played the Borg 40-80. The maniac LAGs that populate that game are fully capable of all manner of illogical BS. A few weeks ago I got into a KK hand vs. one of the regular maniacs. We capped it preflop, and I never let off the gas postflop. We put in somewhere around 11 bets on a flop of 66x before he finally stopped raising, and I won a big pot.

Folding here is just bad even though it is very probably that CO has Aces. The pot is big, and Hero should get to showdown. The only way I would ever consider folding this KK hand, in this game, is if somehow I am faced with 2 cold on the river. I may not even fold it then.