Poker 101: Maximizing value

[ajmargarine]

Villian might be a marginal winner. He doesn't make all the dumb preflop mistakes that fish/donks make. But, I wouldn't consider him a bright player at all.

1. Discuss the turn play. What are the advantages and disadvantages of checking the turn vs betting the turn.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.50/$1 Blinds
6 Players
LegoPoker HH Converter

SB: $41.15
BB: $260.55
UTG: $315.10
<font color="black"> Hero (MP): $100 </font>
CO: $108
BTN: $55.65

<font color="black"> Preflop: </font> Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG calls $1, Hero raises to $5, CO folds, BTN folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $4

<font color="black"> Flop: </font> ($11.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $11, UTG calls $11

<font color="black"> Turn: </font> ($33.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero checks...

[Xanta]

Checking the turn allows villain to complete his a draw (FD or maybe 56) on the river and pay you off.
Checking allows him to catch up and hit an overcard on the river.
Checking makes it look like you just cbet and gave up, making him more likely to bluff the river.

Checking loses value from 55-TT, JQ-AJ. That's the only real bad thing that I see about checking here.

I'd probably check here because people love to bluff into me when I cbet and then slow down. We're probably not getting 2 streets of value out of 55-88 anyways.

[zman31]

Well, villain limped UTG, indicating a likely pocket pair or maybe suited connector or Ax suited. His check call of your flop bet screams pocket pair, either he hit his FH or (monsters under the bed) quads or has a a small over pair.

By checking behind on the the turn when you hit your monster it gives it shows weakness and you might be able to get the rest of his stack on the river when he takes a stab with his 44 or 88 or calls your river push representing a scared 77 or something.

I like the check behind as you may fold those non FH hands of his that you could get more value from if were to bet the turn.

[orange]

there are a few reasons that checking the turn might be good:
-villan has 88 and is not likely to call a bet on the turn/river. checking the turn/betting the river might look more bluffy and encourage a call from those medium pairs.

-villan may interpret this check as weakness and bet the river himself. he also might have a hand like 56 that wont call a turn bet but may improve on the river when in reality, he's drawing dead on that turn.

however, i always bet here. too often will you see many players peel again with 77/88 whatever. they'll still call a turn bet with 56, a heart draw (if present) and you still build the pot vs. any 3. i think a $17 bet is nice here.

also, i wouldnt typically pot this flop. if villan is willng to call psb with much worse (and bet sizing doesnt matter), then potting is fine.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
Checking the turn allows villain to complete his a draw (FD or maybe 56) on the river and pay you off.


[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds like more of a reason to bet.

[ QUOTE ]
Checking loses value from 55-TT, JQ-AJ. That's the only real bad thing that I see about checking here.

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds like a prime reason to check.

[ QUOTE ]
We're probably not getting 2 streets of value out of 55-88 anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

O RLY?

[Gelford]

If you are a nit, then you need to check turn to extract the slightest value


If you are not, then bet and in anticipation of a C/R [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[kaz2107]

i think this comes down to wut our image is to villian since he is sum what not retarted. if we 2 barrel alot and that kinda of stuff then a bet is sick good. but if we check behind with a lot of hands on the turn then we should prolly check behind here as well.

im betting this but i 2 barrel a lot and play reasonably aggro on the turn normally so i get raised a lot on the turn. other people dont nearly as much thus will b given WAY more credit for having a hand. i see him callin with n e reasonable draw he could have (which obv wont call a bet on the river when they miss), obv any 3, any boat, AJ, KJ, probably even QJ, and then possibly with a wide range of pps. i think given this range is so wide a bet is better then a check here. but as i said i think it depends a ton on ur image at the time

[Antinome]

A heart, 2, 5 or 7 could kill action from those medium PPs. I'd be inclined to bet an amount that a medium PP finds irresistable.

[Gelford]

Ahh ... Kaz, translating my more unfriendly post into errr english ???? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


But seriously, against regs this more or less depends on image.

[yellowbluebus]

[ QUOTE ]
Villian might be a marginal winner. He doesn't make all the dumb preflop mistakes that fish/donks make. But, I wouldn't consider him a bright player at all.


[/ QUOTE ]

Our villain limps UTG that is his first mistake and then calls a raise OOP. Is this a normal occurrence in SSNL games? I'd think players at these levels are a little bit more position aware. I am sure there will be exceptions.

Does our villain have a history with us? What is our image at the table and how do we think the villain perceives us?

My gut feeling (which may be affected if the above questions are addressed [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) tells me to slowplay the turn for two reasons:

1. Induce a bluff
2. Allow villain to improve to the second best hand