What is Your Greatest Poker Struggle? Befolder’s Pooh-Bah Post

[Befolder]

Apparently I have reached the vaunted level of 1600 posts to earn a title that really has little meaning considering what it’s measured by. Some folks are avid posters getting in tens a day. Never give too much credit to those with a lot of posts, nor too little to those with few. Quality should be valued over quantity.

For me, it’s taken over two years or longer to reach this number. Never a machine gun poster unless I’ve gotten into it w/ another member on a heated topic, most of my posts have some content and many with documented bad advice as I’ve learned from this rich community of poker players. Please change my title from ‘Pooh-bah’ back to ‘stranger.’

I can’t offer anything new about strategy that hasn’t been touched on by others before me that hasn’t been said better, so what I hope to offer is discussion, honesty and hopefully education from everyone who might reply, helping us all.

All the facets of my game have grown nicely over the years, save one. This one thing has cost me countless dollars over the last five years since I began a student of this complex, rich and challenging game.

I know how to bet for value, build a pot correctly, check/call on the river, induce bluffs, steal blinds, defend my blinds, take advantage of aggressive and passive players, etc. My reads on a player's cards have gotten very strong over the years. There is a lot of work left to be done there, but from my college days (I’m 32 now) when I never considered the others cards, the levels of thinking I go through when necessary are there.

So what is costing me so much damn money? What struggle is perhaps keeping me from making my next big breakthrough which I feel is close?

Having the discipline to follow my reads.

The number of times I have put my opponent precisely on their exact cards and still paid them off is countless. Apparently I have a strong motivation to be right, because I am proven time and time again that I am, at the cost of one or more bets, my tournament life or other costs.

I would be so much better at this game if I could get a hold of that problem.

It’s not always a problem. Some days my discipline is strong enough that I don’t need confirmation. I fold, happy to move on to the next hand.

I will give you a recent example of my idiocy.

Monthly rebuy(2) tournament of about 60 people. I was playing really well that night, EXCEPT for not following my reads in a couple of crucial hands which cost me huge chunks of my stack.

10K starting stacks. It’s the second level of 200/400. I’m UTG1 w/ AJo. I really wanted to fold this hand because it sucks up front to me, but I didn’t. I also didn’t want to raise it committing chips that I might have to fold, so I stupidly limped with it. The table has enough aggressive folks that this is wrong. My image is good as I’ve made a few really nice plays to take down pots w/o a showdown.

The TD (t6000) is two seats to my left and raises to 1100. I hate it. It’s folded back to me. I openly declare that it is a small raise begging for a call w/ AA or KK. I hesitate and everything in me says to fold my measly 400 and move on to the next hand. Something else in me thinks if I flop big enough I could take his stack. That’s the fish in me talking about getting lucky, when the poker player in me doesn’t believe in luck. I make my own (long term).

So I stupidly call, knowing it’s wrong. The flop comes AKJ, I don’t remember what suits. Great right? Not to me. I felt like I just trapped myself. If my read was right, then I was crushed by a set and the flop hit me just enough to kill me. I donked into him for 1500 to kind of find out what was going on. I also didn’t want to tie myself to him only having those two hands as I’m obviously not always right, but this player is pretty solid. He flat called. I rolled my eyes in my brain telling myself I was an idiot and feeling like I just didn’t have the discipline to get away from this hand.

Turn: J. F**k! Now I really wasn’t getting away. At this point I’m glad it’s early in the rebuy period because I’ve resigned myself to getting it all in case I’m wrong. At the same time, I still feel like I’m beat and check to him to see what happens. He checks behind, which doesn’t really tell me much. It’s either nothing or exactly what I think it is.

River is a T, putting a 4 straight out there that doesn’t even matter. I make a value bet just in case I’m wrong, but know better than that. He pushes in for his last 600. Naturally I call and he shows KK.

I end up recovering well later because other than stupid plays like that I was doing well, but it’s things like that which reduce my ability to cash and score big.

I am a good player, but I want to be great. I have no chance at that without fixing this monumental difficulty. I'm glad I at least know what it is.

Do you do this? I need to realize that another hand is next and not only may this hand double me, but it might be the one that busts me and the situation isn’t ideal, so just wait.

This pooh-bah is asking you how you prevent yourself from destroying yourself from this kind of error.

If this isn’t your big struggle, what is? Perhaps we can all share ideas in how to keep ourselves from ruin and aid each other in becoming uber robusto.

[nomadtla]

This is one of my greatest struggles but it is multiplied by the fact that I'll make a read, be dead sure of it, still take the wrong action, then tilt for the next orbit cause I didn't make the move I knew was right.

Nice post sir

As far as the hand goes <font color="white"> I fold AJo early when it can cost a stack. Even after his small raise you don't have the implied odds (given his stack size) to try and outdraw him. If you think he has the best hand fold, if not put him all in preflop since you are OOP and you want to see all 5 cards vs. his hand. </font> I know this is not a NL tourney hand strat post so I will not comment on it [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Befolder]

Which is exactly why I didn't even want to limp in the first place. I know very well that hand sucks in that spot, but made the first mistakes, playing it at all, the second mistake, calling the raise back to me. I've made that fold easily many times before, but for some reason I called that time.

Definitely not looking for hand advice correct. I'm fully aware of the stupidity of it all. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Wetdog]

Good post.

I'm sometimes guilty of the same dumb crap, plus limping first in. Middle suited connectors and suited aces when I'm thinking I'd like to get in cheaply, I limp in middle or late middle when I'm first to act. Then I tilt at myself for being such a weakass. This brings me to what I think is my biggest leak, being a weakass.

[Befolder]

"Then I tilt at myself for being such a weakass. This brings me to what I think is my biggest leak, being a weakass."

The consistency of your logic is good.
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I can forgive myself for making the mistake the first time (usually), but when I see myself making the same mistake multiple times, I feel like I'm stunting my own growth by not learning from the first time and getting all pissed off at myself for hours on end, sometimes days.

[22pajo]

[ QUOTE ]

So I stupidly call, knowing it’s wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

John Feeney, in his wonderful book "inside the poker mind", talks about what you just stated.
He mentions specifically that "anytime you make an incorrect play when you know better, that it is acting on emotion". Acting on emotion, Feeney goes on to explain, is simply a form of tilt. Acting on emotion (tilt) is costing you dollars (and tournaments).

Now thats the bad news. The good news is that you already know this. Its a flaw in your game, no doubt about it. However you are aware of it. Therefore it should be a lot easier to fix. Focus on playing correctly and not making plays that you know are just plain wrong and i'm sure your results will improve.

[Befolder]

Yes and yes Pajo. What I and all of us need to do is when we are thinking of making a decision that we know to be wrong. Stop! Think! Why are you making this decision?

[Wetdog]

I guess you have to think about it like the first few times you decided to quit playing paint-rag and tighten up. Eventually you just accept your original feeling that it's wrong and quit second guessing yourself.

[Bilgefisher]

I wish I was at the stage your at. I honestly I think I'm only scratching the surface of phase 2 of a Player's Progression KingOtter

Here's what I find great about this post. You've reached this so called magical number of posts and know you have progressed extremely far in your game. Your also well aware that you are no where near where you want to be with your game. Thats extremely important.

I think this game a series of small plateau's, and each must be crossed. This is just one of them for you. I'm currently still trying to get better at predicting my opponents and putting them on ranges. From there it will be using that knowledge to adjust my play accordingly. Somehow force yourself to concentrate on this until you get better. Also work on preventing tilt when you do mess up a play. I find myself tilting for an orbit because I made a dumb move and knew it. Each door you open should lead you to more closed doors you didn't know existed until you've finally opened up a house of knowledge.

Befolder, its good to see ya posting in here. Good luck on the climb. Hope to see some more of your posts. Farmland Mob Holla!

[OrigamiSensei]

Wow, great post and something I also struggle with, especially in tournament play. I have a habit of making one or two of those dumb plays and in a tournament that's all it takes to put oneself on the rail.