Play for a win or play for cash?

[Zergum]

I've always played for first, I have lots of 4ths and a lot more 1sts. I've seen people with good stats on both sides of the strategy, just wondering what the common opinion is here. An example of a player who uses a more balanced strat, but plays mainly for first: BigJoe. Someone who plays for top 3 is TheDarkElf.

[Kevin8423]

I think the general consensus is to play for ITM with the best shot at also getting first, not to play to win at all costs, and not to foldbot to the money.

Special cases could say otherwise but I wouldn't take every slight +EV spot to try and get first and also wouldn't regularly fold my way to the money if it ensured a spot at 3rd.

[DevinLake]

bigjoe does not 'play for first'. He plays to maximize his profit on every hand. That may be playing for first in certain situation, it may be playing for the money in others. It's all depend on the specific situation.

Typically when I see someone defend a play because they are playing for first, it means it was a bad play.

[Collin Moshman]

Hi Zergum,

If you are playing with the exclusive goal of winning first place, then your optimal strategy would be to seize any chip edge regardless of SNG equity concerns. Such a strategy would certainly decrease your long-term profits. For instance, you are on the bubble, short-stacked UTG and button fold, and hyper-aggressive chip leader pushes into you for 9 BB putting you all-in. Playing only for first, you would have to call here as you are ahead of the SB's pushing range; but playing to maximize tournament equity, this would be a clear fold.

However, good strategy does require very aggressive play near the end, so observing good players, it is easy to get the (mis-)impression that they are just out there to win.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Collin

[ger664]

Always play for cash.

[Collin Moshman]

Just to be clear, in the sample hand above, it is something like:

Blinds 200-400

UTG and button both have around 400-800 left, and you have 4000 before posting your big blind. UTG and button fold, hyper-aggressive CL pushes, and you are holding a weak ace such as A 6o.

This would be a sample situation where a 1st-only goal leads you to call, whereas an equity maximization goal makes this a clear fold.

Sorry for the ambiguity above.

Best Regards,
Collin

[FoolyCooly]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Zergum,

If you are playing with the exclusive goal of winning first place, then your optimal strategy would be to seize any chip edge regardless of SNG equity concerns. Such a strategy would certainly decrease your long-term profits. For instance, you are on the bubble, short-stacked UTG and button fold, and hyper-aggressive chip leader pushes into you for 9 BB putting you all-in. Playing only for first, you would have to call here as you are ahead of the SB's pushing range; but playing to maximize tournament equity, this would be a clear fold.

However, good strategy does require very aggressive play near the end, so observing good players, it is easy to get the (mis-)impression that they are just out there to win.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Collin

[/ QUOTE ]

are all of your posts sexy?

[DevinLake]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Zergum,

If you are playing with the exclusive goal of winning first place, then your optimal strategy would be to seize any chip edge regardless of SNG equity concerns. Such a strategy would certainly decrease your long-term profits. For instance, you are on the bubble, short-stacked UTG and button fold, and hyper-aggressive chip leader pushes into you for 9 BB putting you all-in. Playing only for first, you would have to call here as you are ahead of the SB's pushing range; but playing to maximize tournament equity, this would be a clear fold.

However, good strategy does require very aggressive play near the end, so observing good players, it is easy to get the (mis-)impression that they are just out there to win.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Collin

[/ QUOTE ]

are all of your posts sexy?

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed. very nice post. welcome to the forum.

[Collin Moshman]

lol thanks for the nice feedback guys.

And Devin, I like your succinct way of putting this:

"Typically when I see someone defend a play because they are playing for first, it means it was a bad play."

Absolutely true, even in an MTT context.

Best Regards,
Collin