Play a big pot with me

[aggie]

I guess i'll repost this here since the responses i got at MSNL were less than impressive...

4 handed, 5-10NL @ the Wynn

Villian in this hand is an extremely good LAG IMO. He gets value from his hands, pounces on weakness, and seems to play extremely confidently in general. His impression of me is probably also good LAG. He's always seen me with the goods when i play a big pot

Background - the last two times i had the button i minraised, villian reraised to $100 from SB, i made it 400 and he folded. Both times i showed him AK

Villian has $2600 and i cover. I open for $30 in the cutoff with j[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]j [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , villian raises to $100, blinds fold, i reraise to $400 and he calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I quickly check, he doesn't think much before betting $500, i think for ~30 seconds and call

Turn: 7

I check, villian thinks for about a minute and shoves for $1700 more. Anybody think about calling here? What if i have the J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ?

[TheGrifter]

Why did you 4-bet preflop? You've acknowledged that the villain is a good LAG so why do you want to play a big pot OOP against him with a marginal hand?

I understand the history affected your decision but you're setting yourself up to be outplayed here most of the time.

Also, what was your intention after the flop call? Were you going to bluff the turn if a scare card came?

[aggie]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you 4-bet preflop? You've acknowledged that the villain is a good LAG so why do you want to play a big pot OOP against him with a marginal hand?

I understand the history affected your decision but you're setting yourself up to be outplayed here most of the time.

Also, what was your intention after the flop call? Were you going to bluff the turn if a scare card came?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been 4-betting so many times that his calling range is probaly pretty huge in position. I have a big hand so i figured i'd charge him for that. When i called the flop i figured i probably had the best hand and if i did he probabably doesn't have a lot of outs. No intentions of bluffing a scare card here.

[greg nice]

^answer those questions

[fslexcduck]

I pretty much hate your preflop play. I don't know what else to say about this hand, but 4-betting JJ OOP turns it into a bluff. i know you say you've been playing back at each other, but he just isn't calling you preflop with T9hh (at least from your description of him).

When you get to the flop, I would bet. You say you showed AK twice, well would you really play it like this? Somehow I doubt it. Check-calling is basically asking to get put in this spot. Could he have 99 here and be bluffing? Sure, I guess. Can you call? I think it would be quite slim. Sure you could be winning, whatever, but this hand is a fold at this point. If he had a club draw, he probably pushes the flop, no?

By just calling preflop you never get yourself into these spots. Seriously, I know you think it's laggy and 4 handed and he can put you on air, but not from 100 to 400. You have the lowest hand in your range here (other than complete and utter air like a very small % of the time) and that doesn't really make much sense.

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]

When i called the flop i figured i probably had the best hand and if i did he probabably doesn't have a lot of outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

then you call the turn obv.

[aggie]

[ QUOTE ]
I pretty much hate your preflop play. I don't know what else to say about this hand, but 4-betting JJ OOP turns it into a bluff. i know you say you've been playing back at each other, but he just isn't calling you preflop with T9hh (at least from your description of him).

When you get to the flop, I would bet. You say you showed AK twice, well would you really play it like this? Somehow I doubt it. Check-calling is basically asking to get put in this spot. Could he have 99 here and be bluffing? Sure, I guess. Can you call? I think it would be quite slim. Sure you could be winning, whatever, but this hand is a fold at this point. If he had a club draw, he probably pushes the flop, no?

By just calling preflop you never get yourself into these spots. Seriously, I know you think it's laggy and 4 handed and he can put you on air, but not from 100 to 400. You have the lowest hand in your range here (other than complete and utter air like a very small % of the time) and that doesn't really make much sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

This certainly seems like the prevailing wisdom. So should i only be 4-betting this guy with AA,KK and as a bluff? Or would you like it better if i reraised to $300 instead?

[ QUOTE ]
You say you showed AK twice, well would you really play it like this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm certainly capable of playing AK like this...

[fslexcduck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I pretty much hate your preflop play. I don't know what else to say about this hand, but 4-betting JJ OOP turns it into a bluff. i know you say you've been playing back at each other, but he just isn't calling you preflop with T9hh (at least from your description of him).

When you get to the flop, I would bet. You say you showed AK twice, well would you really play it like this? Somehow I doubt it. Check-calling is basically asking to get put in this spot. Could he have 99 here and be bluffing? Sure, I guess. Can you call? I think it would be quite slim. Sure you could be winning, whatever, but this hand is a fold at this point. If he had a club draw, he probably pushes the flop, no?

By just calling preflop you never get yourself into these spots. Seriously, I know you think it's laggy and 4 handed and he can put you on air, but not from 100 to 400. You have the lowest hand in your range here (other than complete and utter air like a very small % of the time) and that doesn't really make much sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

This certainly seems like the prevailing wisdom. So should i only be 4-betting this guy with AA,KK and as a bluff? Or would you like it better if i reraised to $300 instead?

[ QUOTE ]
You say you showed AK twice, well would you really play it like this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm certainly capable of playing AK like this...

[/ QUOTE ]
no offense to you because i'm guilty of it too, but i feel like the hands people check here are usually JJ or QQ. we think we should be betting most things but then just check without too much thought with underpairs "because there is no value to betting" or something. i don't know, i think you're capable of playing AK like this, sure... but i think 90% of the time you have AK or more you wind up betting and if i'm villain i'm definitely decently confident you don't have it here. Still, that doesn't tell you much about whether or not you should call, since it might expand his blufing range but maybe also his value bet all in range (KT, KJ, KQ, AK, etc).

[aggie]

[ QUOTE ]
no offense to you because i'm guilty of it too, but i feel like the hands people check here are usually JJ or QQ. we think we should be betting most things but then just check without too much thought with underpairs "because there is no value to betting" or something. i don't know, i think you're capable of playing AK like this, sure... but i think 90% of the time you have AK or more you wind up betting and if i'm villain i'm definitely decently confident you don't have it here. Still, that doesn't tell you much about whether or not you should call, since it might expand his blufing range but maybe also his value bet all in range (KT, KJ, KQ, AK, etc).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, i'm not sure where i stand on all this. Yes, my hand becomes fairly readable to villian when i check/call the flop. In my own mind i was pretty much going to call a turn shove because of that. But the pot got so big preflop, i don't think playing a big pot here is such a bad thing? Note that if i would have lead small on the flp there's a good chance that i'd shove the turn as a bluff.

Villian really was pretty good. I guess i felt like the best way to exploit him was to take advantage of his aggressiveness (which is the case with many good lags IMO). In the hand i actually had the J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] so i said eff it and called. There is a good chance i would have laid down red J's here which is one of the reasons i posted this. Anyway, villian had 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and MHIG

[DJ Sensei]

i dont like the preflop 4-bet with JJ here, particularly oop when he's probably looking to take a shot at you.

the history of the last few hands seems very important here, too, but its hard to say what he'll make of it. I think he'll probably not put you on AK again. In fact, I think he can probably put you on exactly what you have here, QQ or JJ. Maybe sometimes AA, but mostly good underpairs. So then its just a matter of figuring whether he wants a call or not. Shove in this spot when he puts you on QQ/JJ = doesnt want a call.