5/10 WPX AJs line check.

[mjkidd]

WorldPx 5/10, 4 handed. Button is an aggressive player who has put in too many bets with weak hands in the last few rounds of play.

Preflop: UTG folds, Button raises, sb folds, mjkidd calls in the BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

My hand is clearly much stronger than button's range, but 3-betting gains me pretty much no fold equity on any street. I'm getting to showdown against this guy pretty much regardless of how the cards come down -- if I don't hit my flop, I'm planning on checking and calling the whole way.

Flop (4.3 sb): K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
mjkidd checks, button bets, mjkidd raises, button 3-bets, mjkidd caps

This street plays itself, obviously. This guy doesn't always have a King when he 3-bets me; he probably has a K a minority of the time. I'm planning on value betting the turn and river if two blanks hit the turn and river.

Turn (5 BB). Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
mjkidd checks, button checks

This is a pretty crappy card for me. Any straight draw he might have had just paired or hit the straight. I'm checking hoping if he hit his Q he'll be afraid to value bet it after I capped the flop. When I check, I think I've semi-exposed my hand, but I don't really care because I'm pretty much showing down no matter what. I'm betting the river if a heart, jack, or ten falls, and checking and calling anything else.

Is this play/reasoning standard? Does anyone bet the turn here?

[jba]

"I think I've semi-exposed my hand, but I don't really care because I'm pretty much showing down no matter what."

then you really really should care. I bet and call down a raise.

also I think you're losing tons of value by calling preflop. I'm not sure why you're concerned about fold equity.

[thepizzlefosho]

[ QUOTE ]
"I think I've semi-exposed my hand, but I don't really care because I'm pretty much showing down no matter what."

then you really really should care. I bet and call down a raise.

also I think you're losing tons of value by calling preflop. I'm not sure why you're concerned about fold equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

i gotta totally agree with above. By "exposing your hand" you let the villain value bet you on the river and check behind when he's got nothing. I think you should lead the turn since you are planning on calling a bet anyway, since villain is unlikely to raise a Q here. If you get raised on the turn you still have a ton of outs, and from your read you might still be good so you can just call down. If you are going to cap the flop I really think you should lead the turn.

FWIW I might just call his 3-ball on the flop especially since your read says he is unlikely to have the K. This way he might keep betting the worst hand, and you get a chance to c/r if you improve.

[jstill]

tough turn, i just bet tho i think. ur equitys there and there are still plenty of worse hands he ll call a turn bet with that picked up a gutter ect. If you bet the rivers still a sticky spot, I think its an easy bet bet on blanks or maybe even an ugly river but bet bet on KJxQy after capping the flop seems like a -ev line with AJ, sucks ur oop here. I also dont see him bluffing a blank river if u check, after u cap theres almost no hands u wouldnt showdown on this board random Ahxh i guess?? tough spot

ive played u alot mjkidd altho i dont think ur on at the moment tho. ur pretty tough and capable of alot, I usually avoid playing 5/10 6max tables ur on unless theres 2 or 3 particularly bad players. do u know who i am by any chance?

[swong4444]

3bet preflop for value not fold equity. You are way too far ahead of button's steal range and there is no need for deception.

I would bet the turn again w/ a million outs to beat Kx and the chances that you may actually be ahead given your read of the flop action (Kx unlikely).

FWIW, against most opponents, I just call the flop 3bet.

[mjkidd]

jstill -- I don't know who you are, I'd love to know. You can PM me if you want to keep your screenname semi-private, or post here. I'll tell you what I think of you as well.

I usually reraise a hand like AJs PF, but decided to mix things up a bit. This guy was playing so aggressive I thought I'd try out a passive line, because he's going to very often fire 3 barrels with a crappy no pair. My "fold equity" comment in the OP I'll admit doesn't make alot of sense; what I was trying to say is that if I 3-bet this guy, he's raising my flop lead a lot, or trying to take it away on the turn. 3-betting and then leading the flop forces me to play a huge pot with an often unimproved AJ, because I can't trust this guy enough to fold if he shows aggression. Me taking a passive line makes the hand easier to play. And if I show aggression and he has garbage, even this guy will toss it, so I'm giving him a chance to bluff.

For those of you saying "just 3 bet the flop and bet the turn," I have no idea why you would do that. You have a ton of equity on the flop against his range; on the turn there is no question that your equity goes down when the Q hits. Also, what hands are we hoping he is calling our turn bet with? Any 2 broadway cards he has us beat, and there's a chance he won't value bet a hand like QT if we check. Does he really have a hand like 77 often enough for us to bet here? Sure, we have good equity on the turn, but it's nowhere near 50%. And if he hit his straight, we're going to have to pay off his raise.

[jstill]

i didnt say anything but Id never think to not 3bet here, i do see ur points mjkidd. IMHO I think this hand is pretty easy to know very often when to bet calldown UI vs this type most of the time and i feel great with my valuebets on most boards on the flop and turn truthfully ( thats fairly optimistic tho i suppose, and may be a real headache for many UI oop in a large pot). Im not sure calling preflop makes u make that many fewer mistakes tho ( enough to overcome the value u pass up taking 3betting) since u played ur hand soft and often feel compelled to calldown.

Theres no doubt a Q hurts us quite a bit. Its literally one of the 3 worst cards in the deck (which is why this is a tough spot and a good post i think). worse hands to call im thinking like JT J9 Ax fds maybe even 6x (probably not 88-22 after that turn tho). Either way tho even if the turn goes bet call I hate my river choices all over again so i duno tough hand. I think either line on the turn is a crappy spot, ones pushing a marginal maybe non existant edge IMO with no fold equity against better hands, and the other gets u valueowned and lets them play perfect (altho they may check better hands K rag Qx some of the time fearing ur going for a cr since theyre aggro). These two lines both being kinda crappy spots means they probably dont run too far apart in expectation? betting does feel better to me but thats certainly not a reason to do things at the table

[thepizzlefosho]

[ QUOTE ]

guy will toss it, so I'm giving him a chance to bluff.

For those of you saying "just 3 bet the flop and bet the turn," I have no idea why you would do that. You have a ton of equity on the flop against his range; on the turn there is no question that your equity goes down when the Q hits. Also, what hands are we hoping he is calling our turn bet with? Any 2 broadway cards he has us beat, and there's a chance he won't value bet a hand like QT if we check. Does he really have a hand like 77 often enough for us to bet here? Sure, we have good equity on the turn, but it's nowhere near 50%. And if he hit his straight, we're going to have to pay off his raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think what people are saying is that IF you cap the flop THEN lead the turn. What I said and couple others echoed, is that I would call the 3-bet and consider my play on the turn based on what fell. When the Q comes I just call-down unless I improve to a flush or trips on the river. If a blank fell I would consider a c/r if this player likes the free showdown turn bet.

I don't have a problem with the call preflop, but I would prefer a three bet. The cap on the flop is not my choice, but is fine, but if you are going to cap you can't just check on the turn and let the villain value bet all the hands you are behind and check all the hands you are beating.

[milesdyson]

I usually check call these flops now. I wouldn't cap the flop when 3-bet if I check raised in the first place.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually check call these flops now.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you pop the turn instead?

@OP
I would just 3-bet preflop. Forget about FE and jam for real equity. As played I bet/call down the turn as suggested by others.