2 Pair With Heavy Drawing Board

[muddydog]

Hi All (especially pokey) I've been lurking for a while and have learned a lot from reading back posts but I'm ready to take the plunge into posting. I've been studying poker for a while, have read about 15 books and worked my way up from play money to depositing $50 a few times to building a decent bank roll. I'm rolled for $50 holdem and that's what I've been sticking to. I'm hoping for some feedback to see if anyone else plays this differently than I would. The player I'm against is tight aggressive, but on this hand he's in the blind. My thinking during the hand is that with the potential straight and flush draws I can't afford to just call bets and then not know what to do when a scare card comes. Given the betting I'm wondering if it's just completely unlikely he's drawing in this spot? Also, I know the pot odds are decent on the last raise all in but given the action am I ahead often enough to call?

Thanks, Jeremy
Full Tilt Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

CO ($12.30)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($57.95)</font>
SB ($42.20)
<font color="#C00000">BB ($60.85)</font>
UTG ($49)
UTG+1 ($57.25)
MP1 ($41.15)
MP2 ($59.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.75) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $1.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $8</font>, BB calls $6.50, MP1 calls $5.

Turn: ($25.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $7</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $20</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $52.35 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $29.45 (All-In).

River: ($127.55) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>
.

Final Pot: $127.55

[gol4pro]

I do understand why you 3-bet the flop, but I still don't like it. Bottom 2 pair really isn't a hand we're trying to get all in with in an unraised pot. A raised pot is a COMPLETELY different story.

I usually just call the flop raise and then decide my course of action for the turn.

The other line I would suggest is raising the flop and then checking behind on most turns. I don't like this line though because you're always giving drawing hands two chances to hit, where as if you call the flop and bomb the turn, they usually only have one chance.

As played, the turn call is awful. You see 67 most of the time, and a better 2 pair/set the other times.

[jmgambler]

IMHO

You have the player as a TAG, what hand do you put him on, that he would go to the felt with out of the BB, that you can beat?

A/rag Arag diamonds?..... would he do this? him cold calling the the $6.50 flop bet then leading out the turn, just sucks.

I am looking for a cheap showdown here..... but hitting one of your 4 outs may well seal your doom too (A8/A9)?

I thinks its a mistake to get into here with Mr Tag off the BB....... 76d? I think 90% of the time your are toast

[SCBielski]

Welcome to posting on 2+2. This is a very weird spot that I generally try to avoid by raising that type of hand from the button; however, as played I would likely call on the turn and look to see a cheap showdown because I expect villain to showdown somethinglike A8, A9, or possibly even 88 or 99 if this particular TAG prefers to play pocket pairs passively form the blinds.

[muddydog]

Thanks all for the reply. I'm amazed at how much it helps to just talk over the hand, I'm looking at the hand completely differently than I was before. Earlier I figured oh well just bad luck. Now looking at it in detail I see I should have seen that bet on the turn after the potential draw completion as a reason to just call down. Would have probably only cost as much as my raise to see a showdown.

After looking at the hand again with the help of your reality checks I see I really shouldn't be raising there, what could he possibly have that I could beat? Of course it's easier to do this when I have plenty of time, at the time I was three tabling which may be part of the problem, may be time to go back to two while I work out the harder decisions, online it's tough to think through for me when I only have 15 seconds to do it.

Thanks again.

[muddydog]

Ok I've been thinking some more about this one and had a couple questions.

"I do understand why you 3-bet the flop, but I still don't like it. Bottom 2 pair really isn't a hand we're trying to get all in with in an unraised pot. A raised pot is a COMPLETELY different story."

As the hand plays out I do end up all in, yes. But on this street I'm not trying to build a pot, I'm trying to protect my hand. There are potential straight and flush draws out there. If the hand ended after this street would you think differently? What if I just called and then the flush cards hits, and I have to fold? Does that look like a good play?

As far as the turn goes yeah I admit I messed that up pretty bad but I'm more interested right now in the flop action.