QQ Prelfop Nonsense

[Kermit]

BTN raises 4X..

I have a little history with him this session. We are playing on a a few tables together and have been doing some three-betting back and forth. I don't think it has been extraordinarily often/light, but it may appear that way to some FRingers.

Anyway, I repop him and the BB thinks for a second nad makes a raise slightly larger than min.
100BB effective stacks.

also, i have no idea if BB has seen me/BTN tangling.

Kermit

[futuredoc85]

eww. cold 4-bet is aces or kings like 99.5% of the time in FR from my experience.

[Kermit]

[ QUOTE ]
eww. cold 4-bet is aces or kings like 99.5% of the time in FR from my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, at first i was like ZOMG misclick, but then i saw it was a little more than a true minraise...

this was 1/2 as well, so who knows...

i folded

[KurtSF]

Don't want to totally hijack, but I played a hand recently that was very, very similar. Live 1-2, UTG makes it $12. I've seen this guy slowplay big hands up front, once limp-reraising KK pre, and another time taking about $80 off when with AK vs. my KQ on Kxxxx board when I couldn't put him on AK after he limped pre. One caller who is loose and weak, meaning that they (1) don't have a hand and (2) will fold it anyway, so I give no thought to them. I have QQ on the button and make it $40. UTG makes it $80, just a little more than a minraise, and MP folds (of course). We've both got $160 behind if I call.

I couldn't fold here, and did call. He open shoved the flop and after I folded QQ face up he showed me the aces.

When he made the small raise pre I was so sure he had aces, but I couldn't fold queens so soon. Is this a standard laydown?

[CLB]

Folding QQ preflop sucks, but in both of these cases (OP's hand and Kurt's hand) I think it's the right play UNLESS you've seen villian showdown something other than AA/KK after taking a similar line or villian is using this line often enough that it's extremely improbably that he's only playing AA/KK this way.

I don't know that I've folded QQ pf too many times, but that third raise means you're behind so if their not giving you the odds to play for set value then I'd fold them.

I still can't bring myself to apply the same logic to KK, but I don't think I've ever called a 4bet from a full stack with them preflop and been up against anything but AA. I'm actually in the process of reviewing all of the KK hands I've got from $50/$100NL as we speak...I'll make a fascinating post with the results when I'm done.

[checkmate36]

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I don't think I've ever called a 4bet from a full stack with them preflop

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WTF!?! I don't think I have ever even seen a 4bet. I need to join real world. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Bigfoot]

No one at these stakes in FR 4 bets anything other than KK/AA cold unless you know them to be a huge, huge fish. These are the easiest situations to ever get away from KK preflop IMO.

[LearningCurve]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I've ever called a 4bet from a full stack with them preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF!?! I don't think I have ever even seen a 4bet. I need to join real world. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Checkmate,

I'm wondering if you've seen it but just not realized it was a 4-bet. I apologize if I'm telling you something you already know, but the pre-flop bets are kind of strange since the blinds are counted as the first bet. Therefore, a 4-bet pre-flop is equivalent to a 3-bet post-flop.

[checkmate36]

So we are counting the limper(s) pre flop?

[Bigfoot]

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So we are counting the limper(s) pre flop?

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No, posting the blind is technically the first bet preflop.