Bad Call But How Awful Was It? PLO8 Rebuy

flavius · #1 04-03-2007, 05:43 AM

I just want to hear some opinions on this hand. Go ahead and ridicule me. This was a rebuy tourney 18players left, think i was 4th in chips. I was really upset with myself after this call for a multitude of reasons. I used my full time bank and just went allin. I rarely make bad plays like this but oh well. MP1 was a horrible player which factored into my call.

Poker Stars
Pot Limit Omaha Tournament
Blinds: t3000/t6000
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t135548
UTG+1: t119216
MP1: t114402
MP2: t36182
MP3: t25916
CO: t111407
Button: t53555
cyan1de: t119396
BB: t17908

Pre-flop: (9 players) cyan1de is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to t21000, MP1 calls t21000 (pot was t30000), 4 folds, cyan1de calls t18000 (pot was t51000), BB folds.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t69000, 3 players)
cyan1de checks, UTG+1 bets t69000, MP1 calls t69000 (pot was t138000), cyan1de raises all-in t98396, UTG+1 calls all-in t29216, MP1 calls all-in t24402.
Uncalled bets: t180 returned to cyan1de.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t354020, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: t349206, Sidepot 1: t9628)

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t354020, 0 player + 3 all-in - Main pot: t349206, Sidepot 1: t9628)

Results:
Final pot: t354020

MotTrieuDong · #2 04-03-2007, 06:11 AM

You should've excluded the results of Turn and River cards.

Anyways, I personally love to be the aggressor instead of the one calling to look for flops. I think PLO8 tournament players fall in love with any Ace Deuce hand.

You're basically on a drawing hand. You'd need something like two spades and non paired board with nut low draw or some other very strong high hand to want to continue. And a made hand is pretty obvious, you're getting the money in.

I think calling a pre-flop raise is fine, u still have nearly 100k chips behind.

After the flop, you're only drawing to half-pot or worse, with only a possibility of getting a high hand with runner-runner. And worse case scenario, you're busting out.

The question, I would ask myself is: "Am I that desperate for chips in relation to the blinds?" I would say no. 100k chips at 3k/6k blinds is still enough chips to be semi-patient and outmaneuver, steal in position, and get your money in as a better favorite.

This is a case in point, where in many forms of poker, you have to play your hand. I don't think you should worry about MP1 being a horrible player. I feel my general perspective guides this situation well. (The donk is going to lose his chips regardless, doesn't matter.)

I dunno · #3 04-03-2007, 01:23 PM

Well I don't like it because UTG is clearly committed and MP1 isn't going anywhere. If you had anything decent working for high then your play would be fine. I you had already made your low on the flop then I think your play is fine too.

PorkPieHat · #4 04-03-2007, 02:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well I don't like it because UTG is clearly committed and MP1 isn't going anywhere. If you had anything decent working for high then your play would be fine. I you had already made your low on the flop then I think your play is fine too.

[/ QUOTE ]

flavius · #5 04-03-2007, 03:05 PM

I put my stack at risk in situation in which I might be getting quartered at best and I hate myself for it. I hate the fact more though that MP1 won this hand with Qd Ad 3c Kc. Immense negative reinforcement.

Heres another question. What if I was holding A23J. I think most of you will say i should push on the flop first. The thing is I put UTG+1 on aces. So would pushing here be correct with two players ahead of me.

I dunno · #6 04-03-2007, 03:50 PM

If you had A23J and you put him on aces (that's a pretty narrow range for a tournament), I'd probably play exactly the way you did.

Fiasco · #7 04-03-2007, 05:06 PM

I think you know that your actual play was a mistake, and you also know why, so Im not going to reply to the hand that happened.

This is much more interesting:
[ QUOTE ]
Heres another question. What if I was holding A23J. I think most of you will say i should push on the flop first. The thing is I put UTG+1 on aces. So would pushing here be correct with two players ahead of me.

[/ QUOTE ] I think you mean with two players behind you. (God I hate saying this in every post) This will depend a little bit on how you think UTG+1 plays. That being said, I WOULD push, even if I thought he had AAxx, as long as I didnt think that it had to be AAwx.

If Im UTG+1 and I have a bare AA on this flop (no decent low draw backup) then I think I dont want to put my tournament life at risk on just an overpair. If he DOES call you, you certainly arent in very bad shape.

Part of my answer comes down to the fact that Ill be damned if Im gonna fold top pair top kicker and uncounterfeitable (or hard to counterfeit) low draw on the flop. If im willing to make that fold vs an AA hand, then why did I even call preflop?

MotTrieuDong · #8 04-03-2007, 05:32 PM

I'm surprised at these replies. Nobody is considering his stack size.

Fiasco · #9 04-03-2007, 05:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised at these replies. Nobody is considering his stack size.

[/ QUOTE ] Go on. What do you think are the implications of hero's stack size?

MotTrieuDong · #10 04-03-2007, 05:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]

The question, I would ask myself is: "Am I that desperate for chips in relation to the blinds?" I would say no. 100k chips at 3k/6k blinds is still enough chips to be semi-patient and outmaneuver, steal in position, and get your money in as a better favorite.

[/ QUOTE ]