KK hand

joker122 · #1 04-02-2007, 05:18 PM

31/15/1.13 31 wtsd after only 48 hands.

PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, Button calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

UMTerp · #2 04-02-2007, 10:24 PM

Fine once in a while. Call the river more often than not. Standard up to that point obv.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #3 04-03-2007, 02:31 AM

You played the hand fine. The only debatable street is your turn play. When the Ace hits the turn youre basically in a WA/WB situation, and with 2 flushdraws on the board I dont like bet/folding, so I usually check/call the turn in this spot. However, if you somehow feel this guy wont semi-bluff raise the turn, then I dont mind your turn line. Another added benefit to check/calling the turn is those times the villain has a hand like QJ and checks behind on the turn and spikes a pair.

Buffsta8 · #4 04-03-2007, 04:08 AM

check call river is an ok line too

DeathDonkey · #5 04-03-2007, 08:55 AM

I see no value in this river bet so I'd check/call to pick off a bluff. On this board I would often just call and go for the turn checkraise.

-DeathDonkey

tonysoldier · #6 04-03-2007, 09:14 AM

I think this is a terrible place to just call flop and turn cr. What if flush hits, what if 5 hits, what if A hits, do you still cr? What if he has an 8, costs more bets.

I would c-c the turn against most aggressive but not stupid players.

danzasmack · #7 04-03-2007, 09:41 AM

when he just calls the turn you still think there is no value in a river bet?

ILOVEPOKER929 · #8 04-03-2007, 09:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I see no value in this river bet so I'd check/call to pick off a bluff. On this board I would often just call and go for the turn checkraise.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the way the hero played the hand I think there's still value in a river bet. Any pocket pair is basically the hand the hero is attacking when he bets the river. If the hero believes the villain wont bluff/raise and wont bet a hand like TT if checked to, then I think betting the river is ok. I realize the hero only has 48 hands on the guy and that it may be impossible at this point to know if the hero can safely bet/fold the river, but theoretically speaking I still think there's value in this river bet. I think thats what was going on here....The hero believed he could trust the villain so he decided to just bet/fold both big streets. If I somehow knew the villain would not raise the turn/river with a lesser hand and would call the turn/river with more hands then he would bet, then I would take the same line as joker did.

I think whats interesting to me about this situation is I usually take one of two lines here. I either check/call down from the turn on or I bet/fold the turn and river. The vast majority of the time I check/call the turn. (Again I think its important to point out that I strongly believe that bet/folding in HU pots with marginal made showdownable hands with two flushdraws on the board is not a good idea online unless we have a strong read we can trust this guy.) It is very rare that I bet/fold the turn and check/call the river becuz 98% of the time, one of those two lines I mentioned will be superior to this one. And it is very rare that I bet/call the turn and check/fold the river or bet/call the turn and check/call the river for the same reason.

Also,DD, I think check/raising the turn is crazy. I cant see what it accomplishes. Feel free to fill me in if you have time.

DeathDonkey · #9 04-03-2007, 08:48 PM

I didn't mean I checkraise when the ace hits, but generally on an 858 two-tone board I don't mind going for the turn play. On paired boards it seems like people more likely have a piece or a pocket pair when they raise than on other boards, where they might just be out of line with two cards. So I think the chance that our opponent bets the turn for us, and calls down a checkraise because its a pretty dry board is higher than normal. I don't think my opponents are ever getting away from 44 on a 8582 board for instance.

You make good points on the river bet/fold but this is such a great spot for a river bluff raise with a missed flush draw.

-DeathDonkey

ILOVEPOKER929 · #10 04-03-2007, 10:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't mean I checkraise when the ace hits, but generally on an 858 two-tone board I don't mind going for the turn play. On paired boards it seems like people more likely have a piece or a pocket pair when they raise than on other boards, where they might just be out of line with two cards. So I think the chance that our opponent bets the turn for us, and calls down a checkraise because its a pretty dry board is higher than normal. I don't think my opponents are ever getting away from 44 on a 8582 board for instance.

You make good points on the river bet/fold but this is such a great spot for a river bluff raise with a missed flush draw.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I figured I was missing something when it came to the turn check/raise. If I felt my opponent was opportunistic enough to raise the river with a lesser hand, I would just start the check/call party on the turn. I personally need a very strong read not to check/call the turn+river.