variation on "i hate these spots"

[yourface]

4-handed

villain is 26/15/2 over 1k+ hands

preflop: UTG folds, button raises, SB folds, hero calls with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

what is my plan here on the flop, and on a turn brick?

[TheWunderkind]

i c/c this Flop and reevaluate on the Turn including the reads i have. I i have non i might raise the Flop for information and a cheap sd, i know the information thing is bad in Limit but i dont want to give up here easily vs an unknown.

[yourface]

I'd really like to hear more peoples comments. this is a really though spot I think.

sometimes I c/r, b/f, c/f, but I feel like an aggressive villain will play back at me in this kind of spot and I'd be folding the best hand too often.

would c/c, c/c, c/f be better? I'm ahead of a huge part of villain's steal range so I don't want to give up too fast, and I don't want to give villain a chance to push me off the best hand. by the river I think that barring a triple barrelling or lack of hand reading ability read I can give up. my hand is pretty transparent at that point, and after I call a brick turn he has to "know" I'm taking my ace to showdown.

[jstill]

i like ck call better than cr bf or cf, ck folding a blank turn.

part of this is reads but...
buttons steal range is huge, were often ahead and this isnt a board people fire crap on the turn alot (expecting u to often cr a Q even tho id always cr the flop with one or to calldown with any PP here).

raising the flop for information a cheap showdown is pretty pointless I think oop, it generally only makes us put in more bets to see less cards or showdown about as often only more expensively. U could make a hand like a stronger ace fold here or the turn but it doesnt seem like enough of his range to put the investment in vs just calling one sb and having him ck behind and u win the pot very often. U want a read to to know he ll ista muck AJ or even AK sometimes, some players with no read are looking u up on this board with ATo pretty often but will usually just bet once and give u a free showdown if u just ck call with all their worse hands and some range of better A his as well.

[Sherpa]

For me it depends on the BTN and his blind stealing tendencies. Usually a 26/15/2 attempts to steal his fair share, so a calldown with ace high (especially on a paired board) seems right. Against a more aggressive opponent who attempts to steal a lot more than his fair share (and shows an ability to lay down), I may c/r on this board, depending on my image.

[thorleif]

I c/r this exact situation yesterday and got reraised and had to muck. Your c/c c/c c/f line is something I didn't think of. In my case I would have had to pay only .5 more big bets to get to showdown.

But in which of the two cases are we more sure that we're beat?

[yourface]

IMO when he bets the river after we c/c twice we are toast, but if our flop c/r gets 3bet or our turn bet gets raised there is a possibility that an aggressive opponent is playing back at our "obvious" resteal. I'd like to hear more opinions on that though.

[jba]

I can't imagine anything but check/call being correct in this spot. you are ahead soooo often and there are so many good cards you can pick up on the turn, and he'll check behind the turn a lot. but there's no reason to try to build a big pot.

[thepizzlefosho]

I thinking c/r here is awful. Noone gives you credit for the Q ever so they are calling down, and then what do you do on the turn? bet/fold? I like calling the flop and seeing if the villain slows on the turn. If I pick up a flush draw or a pair I might c/r the turn because that looks like I had the Q and slowplayed.

If I don't pick up anything on the turn I'm check folding against a reasonable TAG, or I might calldown a screwball maniac.

I read somewhere on 2p2 where someone had postulated that when HU that you can bet and raise all you like on the flop on a paired board and noone will believe you. I'll save my c/r for a semi-bluff or a more dangerous board.

[marching_on_together]

I think on a rainbow board c c f is probably best, if the flop was two tone then it's somewhat harder as he will more often fire on the river with his trash to fold out the flush draw but proably not enough for you to profitably call. On a two tone board with non of the suit i think you can fold.

Most villians will bet the turn again as people peal so light in these games and alot of turn cards are going to scare hero.