Definition of a Slow Roll

cwar · #1 03-31-2007, 04:42 PM

Sorry if this is standard B+M material but I couldnt find anything to help me with a search. Let me start off by saying I spend 90% of my time playing online as a living and I play live about once a week occasionally at a casino.

My question relates to proper etiquette of hand showdown, I have a hand that came up that sparked my confusion, I am not a regular in this particular casino although the etiquette is important to me because I plan on moving a lot of my play from online to live in the near future:

I have A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and 3-bet a CO raiser from the BB he calls (this is NLHE but bet sizes are not relevant).

Flop comes:
K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I check he bets, I raise he calls.

Turn comes A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and action goes check check.

River comes 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I check he bets big I consider and call.

He then verbally declares that he has a king and waits for me to show my hand, I sit there confused and look at the dealer expecting him to ask the player to show his hand. The dealer also looks at me expectantly and I meekly say "I called you." He pauses for awhile then flips K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I show my straight and get pushed the pot. He was clearly upset by this and left soon after and I sit there confused if I did something wrong. I feel if I show in this spot before he does I could easily get angled into showing losing hands and not getting to see hands which I have paid a premium for the information. I also realize the value of an image and definitely dont want to come off as nitty so Im willing to show my hands in these spots if that is standard etiquette. Furthermore, if I hold the absolute nuts in this spot does that change the situation? Is declaring that I have the straight then waiting for him to show an acceptable counter to his actions? Thanks for your help.

Poshua · #2 03-31-2007, 04:49 PM

Why did you check the turn?

oddjob · #3 03-31-2007, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you check the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

check raise?

Slim Pickens · #4 03-31-2007, 05:03 PM

The etiquette depends on the level, actually. At 1/2, he can suck a butt. You were called. Table your damn hand, sir. 5/10 is (I think) where it starts changing to those softer, iterative revealings. In any case, you're not way out of line asking him to show first without the nuts.

Also, why check the turn?

kcmoore · #5 03-31-2007, 05:05 PM

i think you did it correctly. you called him, he shows first. any decent dealer should have been able to point that to him. i too would have waited for him to show his cards.

cwar · #6 03-31-2007, 05:13 PM

Lol I checked with a read. Not really relevant though.

elliot · #7 03-31-2007, 05:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you check the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

live NLHE games are full of absolutely disgustingly awful players that will fold the turn to a bet, but will get stacked on the river with two pair.

Dynasty · #8 03-31-2007, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I feel if I show in this spot before he does I could easily get angled into showing losing hands and not getting to see hands which I have paid a premium for the information.

[/ QUOTE ]

This should be a very minor concern. With almost all players, you should start by assuming they are telling you the truth in these situations. If they screw you once, then you don't give that specific person a second chance.

bav · #9 03-31-2007, 05:39 PM

You caught the guy bluffing. Yes, you do get to require that the cards be shown in turn if you wish, but clearly the guy was embarrassed and just wanted you to flip over a winner so he could muck. Dragging it out didn't really gain you much information (he told you he had a king) so all you learned was the kicker. And in return, he's now annoyed, quickly leaves, and the table is unhappy things were delayed and they lost a fish.

It is FAR more important to keep the fish happy and at the table than to learn he had an 8 kicker. Unless the guy has been a douche or there's some REALLY good reason you want to see exactly what he had, let it go. It'll work out better in the long run.

I just happen to have an example from last night of a real slow roll...

A youngin goes all-in preflop with JJ for about $350 (he straddled, it was raised to $30, youngin reraised to like $100, other guy pushed, called). The other guy said "ace king" but didn't turn over the cards. Flop comes out AAQ. Jack on the turn. Blank river. JJ has been sitting face up since the initial bet and has to think JJJAA is good. Pause pause pause. Finally the other guy turns over QQ and giggles. Ultra-dickish slowroll after lying about what he had. That's the definition of a slow roll.

stinkypete · #10 03-31-2007, 05:57 PM

if he's a noob fish or a friendly and bad regular and you don't think he's angleshooting just table your hand.

against good players or other regulars i think what you did is fine. here's how i often handle this situation:

opponent: "i have a king"
stink: "i can beat it" (i don't show it yet)
...
...
opponent usually tables hand. sometimes mucks (when they're lying). if they muck i don't show.

some people might not like this, but [censored] them. i've been angleshot/slowrolled on more than one occasion by some guy who just wanted to see my hand, so i prefer not to give away much information if i don't have to.