Vegas Trip Report

[mrbaseball]

The state of limit poker seems pretty dismal these days. Just got back from 5 days in Vegas and although the games were good they were often short and primarily low limit.

I stayed at the Mirage. First thing I did after unpacking was head out for some late lunch/early dinner over at Caesars Palace. Then I hit their poker room. There were 2 3/6 games going and a 4/8 interest list. I sat in a 3/6 and got on the list for 4/8. After about 45 minutes the 4/8 went and I moved to it. Caesars does a nice thing by asking around to see if the interest is still there and that the people on the list are still around and interested. It's a nice touch that the Mirage could learn from. Both the 3/6 and 4/8 were real soft and full of clueless tourists. After about 4 hours I cashed out up $200. I then wandered around a little and headed back to the Mirage hoping to play 6/12. I got on the 6/12 list but there were a few names in front of me so I sat in a 3/6 for a few hours never getting a call to 6/12. I won another 80 bucks before calling it a night as I was beat from a day of travel.

Next morning headed to the pool for a while planning to hit the Mirage poker room at around noon when the 6/12 (from past experience) usually gets going. I got on the list and played some 3/6 but the 6/12 never went. They called it but nobody showed. I was at the next table ready to go but it never happened. Played for a few hours and won another 100 or so and then went for dinner. After dinner one 6/12 was going and I got on the list and watched the game. It looked crappy. After about 15 minutes of waiting they called a new 10/20 game so I went and played that instead. It was a terrific game. Very loose and very aggressive and subsequently very high variance. Lots of straddling and 3 and 4 betting preflop. One crazy asian lady in particular. Post flop it was a bit more normal. I only played for about 2 hours with big swings but left on an upswing with about 250 to the good.

Next day the weather was crap. Cold and windy and here I am with a suitcase full of shorts and Tshirts. I walked over to check out the Venitian in the morning. About 8:30 am and only one low limit no limit game going. I wanted to check out the Wynn but the weather and my state of dress made me decide to head back to the Mirage where very little was happening as well. I played some 3/6 and planned on playing the noon tourny at Caesars. Another great little run at 3/6 put up $132 for the session which would cover my tourny fee and rebuy. The first 2 levels of the tournament were bleak as I couldn't catch a hand and hiy the first break with about 3K. After the break I continued to get ground down until I was down to my last 1K. On the button I had KJo and 3 or 4 limpers so I pushed it in. 2 callers and the King hits and I triple up. Now I start catching a few cards and make a few plays and by the second break I'm at 12K. After the break we are at 400-800 blinds and I've got about 11K and the big blind. Big stack (about 17K) raises to 2500 and I look down at TT so I push it. He thinks a while and calls with AK and hits about 14 A's and K's from the flop to the river and I'm done. I go get some eats and head over to the Venetian to see what its like in the afternoon. I want to play that 8/16 $1 rake game. But it isn't going. In fact there are only 2 names on the list. There is one 4/8 though so I try that. It was short. 5 or 6 players for the most part although it did get up to 8 for a hand or two. Very loose and very aggressive. I couldn't do a thing here. Bad cards, missed draws while two of the biggest donks I have ever seen were firing chips on every street with any 2 cards. After about 4 hours I quit down about $100 which would be my only losing ring session of the trip. But this room is easily the nicest and most comfortable in town. I can't understand why they don't have all of the poker business?

Had some dinner and decided to drink heavily. Sat in a 3/6 at the Mirage and just kept drinking and having fun playing stupid and straddling and whooping it up. The guy on my right in this game was perfect. He called any 2 every single hand usually to the river. The game was pretty much fun and some other guys drinking and whooping it up started straddling too and it was a fun game. When I knew I was too drunk and it was way late (for me) I decided to cash out for about a $5 winner and all that beer.

Next morning the weather is still crap so I just play some 3/6 until the noon Caesars tourney again. No freeroll today though because I just tread water in the 3/6. The tourney starts well as I double up on the 3rd or 4th hand with my AA taking down KK but he hadn't rebought yet but there was another guy who called a sizable preflop raise but all the chips didn't go in until the flop. I was catching lots of big cards and my stack was going. Last hand before the break I got AA again and got it all in against a short stack who had 44. Unfortunately he caught a 4 on the river but I still hit the break with 12K and was easily the chiplleader at my table. After the break things were going well with a hand here and a steal there. Then I got that dreadful AA hand again. Aggressive lady who has been stealing a lot pushes about 7K. I call as does another player ona shortstack. She has 89s. 8 on the flop, 9 on the turn and an A on the river. Unfortunately that A gave her the flush and I was wounded. I started to get blinded down and miss on steals that were fighting back. I was down to about 4.5K and made a preflop raise with QJo and the big blind called. J high flop and I push the rest and of course he has AJ so I'm done.

I head over to the Bellagio to play some 8/16. I hate the Bellagio. It always feels cramped and crowded and the floor does it's best to ignore you when trying to sign up for a game. Anyway I get on the list and wait. And wait and wait and wait. I'm looking at the game and it looks unfun. It's in the crampedest part of the room and all of the players look very unhappy. I'm going on tilt just watching and waiting and after about 35 minutes I say screw it and just leave. I grab some dinner and head back to Caesars. No 4/8 going and only one 3/6 which I get in. It's a pretty good game but I can't get much going. The highlight of this session was hitting quad jacks for the high hand bonus. It was only $60 though because 4 jacks was just hit the night before. It did turn me into a winner though as I cashed out up $50. I went back to Mirage and a 6/12 game was actually going! I get on the list and am in the game within 15 minutes. It's a great game too. It consisted of 2 really bad locals, me, 2 seemingly solid players, one totally clueless donk, and 3 loud overaggressive drunks. Unfortunely I couldn't get much going and after a few hours I cashed out about a $50 winner.

Last day I was pretty pokered out. Finally the weather was passble again so I got a little pool time in the morning. In the afternoon I just played some 3/6 again and had a nice little run and cashed out for another $100 winner. During this time they kept calling a 6/12 but nobody showed. The 6/12 used to be my goto game but it was very intermittent on this trip. In olden times they used to have at least 2 of them going. Bored with poker I just wandered around and after a lateish dinner I headed back for one more shot. Still no 6/12 and I didn't feel like playing 10/20 so I just played more 3/6 and basically rolled over the table winning another $150 in about 2 hours. I was done. Time to go pack and get a good night sleep before traveling out early the next morning.

The low limit games seem softer than ever. But also more scarse as most of the games I played in were not ful and usually in the 6-8 player range. The Mirage is just depressing and with the absense of 6/12 or at least it only going sporadically I will probably stay at Wynn next trip. I love Caesars room but they primarily have 1/3 no limit games. The most limit I ever saw there were 2 3/6s and a 4/8. But i is a very nice and very comfortable room. The Venetian is just beautiful and very spacious with the most comfortable tables and chairs of any room I have played in. It's a shame they can't get more going on as I would play there and stay there my whole trip if they had decent action. The Mirage is sorta cramped and claustrophobic. Especially the upper section where the 10/20 and 20/40 are. Every time I have played in the 10/20 it has been physically uncomfortable and that is the main reason I don't like playing in it. The Bellagio I guess is the place to go for decent limit action but I hate it so much I may never go in there again even though every time I have played the 8/16 it was very soft and profitable.

Just seems like limit is dead or dying. I guess I should learn no limit cash games? But I like limit and I know limit and I am very comfortable playing limit. I guess I shouldn't complain as I had a great run in the ring games but it would have been nice to see a little more variety and action. I'm not a pro and just want some profitable poker fun on my Vegas vacations but the limit landscape definitely seems to be in decline.

[ChrisConstantine]

good trip report and good points, thanks!

[Jeffage]

I liked the report. That said, if you're in Vegas and you want limit games beyond the lowest stakes, your only guaranteed action is at Bellagio (and to a lesser extent, Wynn). So, while there is no doubt that limit is weakening in Vegas, you probably didn't help your search for games by avoiding the two rooms that spread mid limits on a regular basis.

Jeff

[mikeca]

My experience with low limit in Vegas a few months ago was very similar. The Mirage and the Bellagio were the only places that had low limit games running most of the time. The Venetian room looks great, but the times I went there, either the 4/8 was not running or it had a long list. I never had to wait more than about 2 minutes to get a seat in a 3/6 game at the Mirage. Of the 5 mid-week afternoon and evening 3/6 games I was in at the Mirage, only one was short-handed for any length of time. I will have to try the Caesars.

While the selection of low limit games in Vegas is a little limited, the games themselves seem to be much better than what they were 4 or 5 years ago. I don’t go to Vegas that often, but I remember the afternoon games being full of local Vegas rocks. I think the local rocks have switched to NL, because I didn’t see any of them a few months ago.

[mrbaseball]

[ QUOTE ]
While the selection of low limit games in Vegas is a little limited, the games themselves seem to be much better than what they were 4 or 5 years ago. I don’t go to Vegas that often, but I remember the afternoon games being full of local Vegas rocks. I think the local rocks have switched to NL, because I didn’t see any of them a few months ago.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that that games are softer than ever. And I never once got on a list for 3/6 as there was always immediate seating available. Some of those old rocks are still around but not as many. They used to be the dominant part of the low limit population but now almost every game was 80%+ tourist which is good. I usually take 2 poker trips a year and have since 1999 and have watched the evolution of things. I remember the old rooms at MGM and Harrahs, their subsequent closing due to lack of poker action only to reopen bigger and better rooms as the poker boom hit. I saw the insertion and removal of the keno lounge at the Mirage. But some of those old rocks from my early trips are still grinding it out. Back in my early trips the 3/6 at the Mirage was the lowest game around and most places were spreading 1-1-4-8 which was basically a 4-8 game with a spread limit. Now even 4-8 is scarce and 3-6 is the dominate low limit "limit" game. I would really like to see more 4-8, 6-12 and 8-16 but apparently there just isn't much demand for it these days.

[mrbaseball]

[ QUOTE ]
your only guaranteed action is at Bellagio (and to a lesser extent, Wynn)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I realize that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] My hate for the Bellagio pretty much keeps me out of there and I know it has the most action that I want. But I know I'll be unhappy sitting in that room so I typically just avoid it. I really did want to do the Wynn at least once but the cold windy weather kept me on a short leash. I guess I don't understand how the Bellagio stays so popular when bigger and nicer and more comfortable rooms who treat players well and seem to be run better can't get any action going?

[pig4bill]

Chicken and egg syndrome. The games are there so that's where the players go. To overcome the inertia, other rooms will have to take drastic action, like hire props or something.

If you played in the Caesars tournaments you know NL a least a little, so why not try the cash games?

[toss]

Try out NL and see how you like it. So many good games in Vegas.

[Cactus Jack]

$2/$4 is the main limit game. There is always a game going in places where they don't get anything else. Few places actually spread $3/$6. (Makes me miss the Stardust.) sigh

[PorkchopDJG]

Mr.Baseball,
I agree that the condition of mid-limit Vegas holdem is not good. I wanted to play a lot of 8/16 but ended up having to play it mostly shorthanded when I could find it going at all last Wed-Fri nights. I will post more in a trip report soon.

My tip to anyone going to Vegas is learn NL because it is everywhere out there and if you can play patient and wait to hit a big hand you will get paid off.