KK facing overbet preflop

avocadoclock · #1 03-30-2007, 04:11 PM

5/10 game
My stack is around $3.5k, and villain's stack is around $1.5k.

I'm dealt K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG+2, and I raised to $50. Four/five people call behind me, and the BB villain goes all in for $1.5k.

Hero??

Now with more information. I haven't been out of line at all. I've been pretty straight forward for most hands. Villain is a middle aged woman who I've seen play pretty tight. I don't think I've seen her shown down anything but good cards so far. No tricks or garbage hands.

Do you see this all-in possible with AK/JJ/QQ?
My $50 UTG+2 should be the only hand she's worried about, and I'm not going to have a monster here that often to call an all-in, so is it possible she's making a play with the hands above? But then again, why go all-in with her hand? A $500 raise would do just about the same effect as stealing.

Help me with some thoughts here.
How sure to I need to be that she has AA if I were fold this? (What % of her range needs to be AA?) Even with no reads, do you call?

EricDrawback · #2 03-30-2007, 04:30 PM

Based on your description of the Villian, I'd probably fold...This is very read dependant but against someone that has only been showing down with the goods, I fold. You're facing AA far too often here.

dtan05 · #3 03-30-2007, 04:33 PM

I don't think I find a fold here. I see even the tight players at live games pull this with QQ, so yeah .

spyu · #4 03-30-2007, 04:37 PM

Where is this at? Also any history or thoughts on how she values AK? Middle-Aged/Old tight players play pretty much the same except for AK. Some overvalue i.e. go all in pre-flop especially w/ a lot of money in the middle. And some won't call a big bet pre-flop w/ it.If she's been pretty tight w/ her money and the latter. I think you see AA about 95% of the time here, the other 5% you see KK.

Hince · #5 03-30-2007, 04:45 PM

This is such a difficult fold to make... one that I probably would not make without a bit more information.

jfish · #6 03-30-2007, 05:11 PM

did you have an asian dealer? did he say "brinds prease"? this matters.

avocadoclock · #7 03-30-2007, 05:21 PM

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Where is this at?

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did you have an asian dealer? did he say "brinds prease"? this matters.

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Practically all of the dealers at Pechanga are Asian. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

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Also any history or thoughts on how she values AK? Middle-Aged/Old tight players play pretty much the same except for AK. Some overvalue i.e. go all in pre-flop especially w/ a lot of money in the middle. And some won't call a big bet pre-flop w/ it.If she's been pretty tight w/ her money and the latter.

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She is definitely tight with her money. However, I think she would value AK into atleast a call here. I think a raise is equally if not more likely from this player with AK looking for a takedown of a largish pot preflop as well as to push out any garbage hands.

[ QUOTE ]
I think you see AA about 95% of the time here, the other 5% you see KK.

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We just discussed AK, and QQ isn't even an option? Dang... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

spyu · #8 03-30-2007, 05:30 PM

Well if she's the type of player who just calls w/ AK I don't think she ever goes all-in given the action w/ QQ.
If she were the type to go all in w/ AK then QQ would definitely be in her range. But given all you said I fold here. Especially since I'm only in for $50. Though many would disagree w/ me. There're much better spots to stack off $1.5k.

THE JUICE · #9 03-30-2007, 05:33 PM

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I think you see AK about 95% of the time here, the other 5% you see AA.

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FYP

avocadoclock · #10 03-30-2007, 05:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is such a difficult fold to make... one that I probably would not make without a bit more information.

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I stood up and wanted to puke. I couldn't get a read on the lady. She just sat there, super comfortable... which should have been my tip off. However, I think if someone is stupid enough to push with QQ, they would think they're ahead of my AK etc etc. I should've realized this lady wasn't that type of action player.

So I stood up and said "wow... wow... wow...", and the whole table started mocking me. They all thought I was making a scene with nothing, and I called for time. A black guy at the table started needling me saying I was taking too long, and he said he knew what he was going to do with his hand (indicating push for about $500 more). A floorman came over and started a minute countdown. At 30 seconds, I was going to fold. At about 6 seconds, I caved to the pressure and threw in a stack of cash I had. The black guy moved in for his wimpy stack.

BB: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Donkey: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Turn: J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
River: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

No joke, this was seriously the hand from hell. The only way I could honestly get away from my hand was preflop, and it felt like I missed my opportunity. Even so, the donkey ended up taking the pot to add insult.

The extra sad part it was double jackpot at the time in the casino, and another K, which nobody folded, would've been good enough for the pot and an extra $6k. I can't even make this [censored] up.

And I do agree with you Spyu. I'm just arguing to get all of the angles on this hand. I think a fold was the right play here. Though slightly possible, AK/QQ doesn't show up often enough to AA in this spot to call against this particular player. I only had $50 committed, and this was a huge huge raise. Ah, the toughest laydown in poker...