OoP float, line checking

CanYouCallThis · #1 03-30-2007, 05:55 AM

Poker Stars
No Limit Hold'em Cash Game
$0.05/$0.10 Blinds
6 Players
Lego Poker Hand Converter

Stack Sizes
SB: $26.55
Hero (BB): $9.80
UTG: $11.05
MP: $3.40
CO: $8.40
BTN: $9.45

Preflop: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($0.15, 6 Players)
UTG folds, MP calls $0.10, CO folds, BTN raises to $0.40, SB folds, Hero calls $0.30, MP folds

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($0.95, 2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.70, Hero calls $0.70

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($2.35, 2 Players)
Hero bets $1.50, BTN calls $1.50

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($5.35, 2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN bets all-in for $6.85, Hero calls $6.85

Which lines to improve on? Fold river? Villain had encountered a hand like this 10 hands back, in which he had an overpair, and he pushed the turn, so QQ/KK/AA was not in his range from my point of view.

Loc0Loc0 · #2 03-30-2007, 06:01 AM

** Edit... Misread [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Why do you call postflop?
Why are you leading the turn?

What line to improve? Play for setvalue...
Maybe you can begin with reraising PP's preflop when the stacks are deep enough. And when villain has a pretty high PFR%

CanYouCallThis · #3 03-30-2007, 06:16 AM

I know I can just play this for set value, and fold the flop.

But he has missed this flop more then 2/3 of the time imo. So why fold when you are ahead of his range? I bet turn because he will push his overpairs then, and if I check I still know sh*t because he will second barrel me with prob anything here.

Please judge the play as it is, I understand set value is good as well, so fold flop, but I decided to float him to improve that.

So please, what about the turn bet? Imo I made it the right amount,or should it be more/less?

Loc0Loc0 · #4 03-30-2007, 06:23 AM

Amount is good but I don't like the play.

His range is any 2broadway/any pair/maybe some SC...

With the jack on the turn he now has to cards he could have hit. With a lowcard on the turn I would like this play better.
What are we pretending to have here btw?

whizzle · #5 03-30-2007, 06:39 AM

His range is hudge here. Call for set value. Just fold the flop. I don't think tis is a good way to float. Ur call @ the river is horrible. What are we beating here? Air, that's it

BobAllinSki · #6 03-30-2007, 07:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But he has missed this flop more then 2/3 of the time imo. So why fold when you are ahead of his range? I bet turn because he will push his overpairs then, and if I check I still know sh*t because he will second barrel me with prob anything here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I get your thinking, if your calling the flop for value, because your hand is likely to be good 2/3 of the time this is so very wrong. I'm going to assume a decent opponent here, first he wont bet the flop without a piece of it 100% but will bet a peice of it 100%, you call as a small favourite against his range and get to the turn, he will often bet here with hands you beat but again allways bet with hands that beat you, finaly on the river if he bets again you will be even less likely to be ahead against his range, and depending on villain and your holding you will either fold, sometimes with the winning hand, or pay off a better hand. Calling down with a made hand when you are 66% against villains range is win small - loose big territory, been +% doesnt mean you are +$, especially out of position.

That doesnt mean you should give every cbet a free card though, like you say he is likely to have missed, so a bluff has some potential, your options are

1) Donk, this is unpopular here but I think it has merits, especially if you like to take the bet/3 bet line with sets etc, plus its the cheapest bluff you can make out of position, this is best suited to overcards, hands that can improve to only make one pair, if raised you can fold with ease when called you still have a chance to win a small pot (pot control is easy oop after donk-bluffing and hitting because a check represents a bluff so well).

2) check raise, this is an expensive bluff but no more than a float, this is best suited to hands that have little chance to improve but have some showdown value as the danger is you can get get re-raised off your hand ( a waste of a draw) but your opponent might put you on a powerfull hand and call with a draw, thinking his implied odds are good and let you showdown a winning hand for free when he misses.

3) Float, floating out of position really sucks, it looks weak so gains little from fold equity, and to often villain will make a showable hand on the turn. Floating out of position is worst done with small pairs as it costs the same as a check raise but often gets called where a check raise would have worked (when the 4th card gives villain a hand usually). If you must float out of position the best hands to do it with are decent draws, float bluffing with draws is better than donking because someotimes on the flop you will get given a free card and better than check raising because a check raise will often get you blown off your draw. When floating oop make it a fairly large bet unless you are pot sweetening with a great draw, the turn bet here was to small to get any hand that beat you to fold.

The important thing with all of these is that you mustnt do them very often and you absolutely must be aware of if you are bluffing or are playing for value, if you are bluffing dont pay off when called, it seems uncertain in this hand if you thought you were playing for value (very wrong) or were bluffing (a check/raise would be better and the river should be a fold).

Jouster777 · #7 03-30-2007, 07:52 AM

This is the ubiquitous 10NL double reverse float.

BTN cbets with air, Hero realizes this so he floats and bluffs turn, Villain realizes this and so he smooth calls planning to bluff river, Hero checks river to induce, villain falls right into the trap and throws in his stack. Villain shows AQ...and Hero's hand is good. Standard.

Loc0Loc0 · #8 03-30-2007, 08:01 AM

Nice Jouster..

Thats exactly what i thought happened here [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

CanYouCallThis · #9 03-30-2007, 08:08 AM

ROFL @ Jouster.

Were you my villain or what? Exactly what happened, lol!

Jouster777 · #10 03-30-2007, 08:14 AM

LOL...Like I said, standard.

Seriously though, that river call was just horrible. With villains this bad you don't have to get your money in where 50% you are beat by ATC.