Once Upon a Time in America (possible spoilers)

12ressiMorP · #1 03-29-2007, 09:08 PM

For those who have seen the movie, I'd like your take on whether or not the events we see take place in the film in the late 1960's are real or just an opium induced dream that Noodles is having. I've seen it argued both ways.

My take is that I lean towards it being an opium induced dream because that makes the ending more logical than Max's character really surviving and becoming a politician and so on. But if it is a dream, than why and who took the money out of the suitcase in the locker when Noodles went to look for it after the rest of the crew had seemingly been killed. Had Max already taken the money out previously?

I have only seen the film twice (the real version) and actually just went to buy the dvd at Best Buy and they didn't have it (a million movies in that place and they don't have one of the best). But, I'd like to hear some of your takes on this and the film in general. It is one of my favorites.

andyfox · #2 03-29-2007, 10:14 PM

I always thought it was real, but then what about the car that drives by at the end? Also, Max was a famous man by that time, so how could Noodles just be seeing him for the first time? As well, there's the fact that Deborah seems not to have aged at all.

Here's what Leone said:

"Opium can create visions of the future . . . As far as I'm concerned, it is possible that Noodles never leaves 1933. Maybe this is the first time a film has actually finished on a flashback. It could have been a journey of the imagination. The film offers a double reading--I say it here and I deny it here . . . certainly, in 1933, Noodles is already morally and materially dead."

12ressiMorP · #3 03-29-2007, 10:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I always thought it was real, but then what about the car that drives by at the end? Also, Max was a famous man by that time, so how could Noodles just be seeing him for the first time? As well, there's the fact that Deborah seems not to have aged at all.

Here's what Leone said:

"Opium can create visions of the future . . . As far as I'm concerned, it is possible that Noodles never leaves 1933. Maybe this is the first time a film has actually finished on a flashback. It could have been a journey of the imagination. The film offers a double reading--I say it here and I deny it here . . . certainly, in 1933, Noodles is already morally and materially dead."

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, good find on that quote. I never read it before.

Dominic · #4 03-29-2007, 10:47 PM

I have the long version on DVD but haven't seen it in years...I really need to view this great movie again.

andyfox · #5 03-29-2007, 11:49 PM

Hitchcok and Bernard Herrmann was a pretty good team, but I'd still vote Leone and Morricone as the best director/music collaboration ever.

MrMon · #6 03-30-2007, 09:43 AM

This is a great, great film, or a horrible film, depending on which version you see. But we'll just forget the short version even exists, since the long version is one of my favorites.

Deborah certainly ages, and considering she has a son who looks just like Max, there's certainly been a passage of time. I've heard the dream theory before, but despite what the director or anyone else says, there's one key thing that would indicate it's not a dream - the frisbee. The frisbee cut is one of the most memorable things about the movie and there's no way that Noodles would have dreamed about a frisbee in 1933, since they weren't invented until after the war. If he were a Yalie, that might be possible, but we have no indication he ever pursued higher education. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

12ressiMorP · #7 03-30-2007, 02:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a great, great film, or a horrible film, depending on which version you see. But we'll just forget the short version even exists, since the long version is one of my favorites.

Deborah certainly ages, and considering she has a son who looks just like Max, there's certainly been a passage of time. I've heard the dream theory before, but despite what the director or anyone else says, there's one key thing that would indicate it's not a dream - the frisbee. The frisbee cut is one of the most memorable things about the movie and there's no way that Noodles would have dreamed about a frisbee in 1933, since they weren't invented until after the war. If he were a Yalie, that might be possible, but we have no indication he ever pursued higher education. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Another good point. The frisbee scene almost seems like it was a cut from a bigger scene also.

orange · #8 03-30-2007, 02:55 PM

How does this mob film compare to others such as Goodfellas? I have not seen this film, but have heard great things about it. (fwiw, I really enjoy mob films).

andyfox · #9 03-30-2007, 03:17 PM

It's a glorious movie, but, again, make sure you don't see the butchered version.

MrMon · #10 03-30-2007, 07:03 PM

For those who don't know, Deborah as a child is played by Jennifer Connelly. Before you get excited, she's 12. But she was an outstanding actress even then, and you can see how she was destined to win that Oscar.