Pot odds in NL play...

[Bang584]

Does anyone else here think they are overrated? While they are important, I usually don't find them very useful when I'm actually at the table. I'm leaning more towards the Mike Caro school of thought... do the math at home, and bring psychology to the table.

In other words, I know what I need to bet already to price out certain draws.

When I hold KTo on the button and there's a minraise from an uberrock up front, I know that my hand doesn't profit against his raising hand range in the long run, regardless of the odds I am offered, so it's an easy fold.

When bluffing, I don't have to calculate the pot odds... if I think there's a good chance of getting away with it, I make the bet. I just need better chances for bigger bets, simple as that.

I'm not saying the math's not important, I'm just saying there's not really a need to be calculating it at the table. I should already know the odds for drawing to certain hands, and I should be able to estimate that certain plays will be favorable against my opponents' hand ranges.

I just find it harder to follow my instincts when I'm constantly counting up pot odds. My reads aren't as sharp, and my play is usually weaker. Anybody else like this?

Anyways, I really think that pot odds at the table are overrated in NL play. If you find yourself counting them, then you probably haven't done your homework. Drawing odds never change, AT is almost always dominated by a hand range of (AK-AJ, KQ-KJ, AA-TT), but your opponents are rarely the same... which should you be more worried about keeping track of? Since you can calculate the odds at home, I think the question is easy to answer.

[iopq]

You have AK of clubs
UTG raises 4xBB
it folds to you in the BB, you decide to call because UTG is a rock

the flop reads 2c7cQs
UTG bets the pot and it folds to you

Assuming your opponent will bet/fold the turn if the flush hits and bet/call if the flush doesn't hit, do you call his flop bet?

You got your reads and you got your odds. Calculate them now, so that when this happens in a game you know what to do. It's a skill you need to have in order to learn poker, not in order to play poker.

[mikeevans12]

Bring the odds to the table with you. YOu should be calculating implied odds, at least to a rough estmate. I know there are situations where it is simple and you know that if you hit your gut shot you will take someone's stack.


I am a very instinctive player, and got by on that in live games. But when I started to understand pot odds in no limit my game improved dramatically. A capacity to calculate pot odds is instramental, to maximizing your winnings. There will be times you make -EV choices that you would not make if you calculated pot odds prior to a decision.

[x vikram]

Without knowledge of pot odds you wont be a great player.

Without sharp instincts and reading skills that allow you to put your oppoenent on a hand/range of hands you wont be an amazing player.

Id take instincts over pot odds anyday, however I think you got to know the odds

[iopq]

there is no choice like

"I can either learn pot odds today or I can learn sharp instincts..."

So since sharp instincts come with experience and some daring play and some more experience and some more experiments and doesn't come instantly... learn pot odds in like a day and then you'll profit for a lifetime.

[AncientPC]

You can't play strictly adhering to pot odds like you can at low limit, but pot odds in NL will help the beginning player stop bleeding money away.

Implied odds and position is a lot more important in NL than pot odds.