JJ

fdwarrior · #1 03-28-2007, 07:15 PM

Villain is tight so he 3-bet with AQs+, TT+, AKo

0,25/0,50 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, Hero raises, MP2 folds, MP3 3-bets, 4 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7,40 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ??

It's pretty standard situation so any suggestion.

that_guy_33 · #2 03-28-2007, 07:20 PM

I b/f flop probably. If just called I b/f UI turn as well.

sarsen · #3 03-28-2007, 07:30 PM

If the range you put him on to 3-bet is accurate, you're ahead of 26 hands (AQs, AK, and TT), tied 1 hand (JJ), and behind, 18 hands (AA-QQ). Why not cap it pre-flop, and bet flop?

Guitierez · #4 03-28-2007, 07:38 PM

Yeah, why not?

Point Blank · #5 03-28-2007, 11:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If the range you put him on to 3-bet is accurate, you're ahead of 26 hands (AQs, AK, and TT), tied 1 hand (JJ), and behind, 18 hands (AA-QQ). Why not cap it pre-flop, and bet flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think you can play JJ here a few ways from pre flop (we have any reads as to the nature of the tight player ... LLH, SSH, ABC, passive, aggro, super chart boy...?)

if you cap pre flop you'll have a lot of guys taking shots at you (because we always have AK yes?) ... you could get raised by an aggressive player with 99, TT, JJ, AK ... or just called down with AQ by a non aggressive (or ABCish type - not yet willing to raise the Q as TPTK vs a capper)

we could just call the 3bet pre flop with the intention of check raising a non ace flop (this puts a little more pressure on most types - making them think a little ... after raising and calling you could be check raising here with a fair amount of stuff, maybe slow playing AA, KK headups)

vs a really aggro type ... I think playing these guys is much harder - if you call the 3bet and check raise (that just might say FU! ... and raise with AK, TT, 99, lol and KJ)
I think playing like a pussy might be best - cap pre flop to get your money in when likely ahead ... then wussout from the flop (not sure if we should just c.c all the way or b.c-c.c-c.c ... he'll bet many hands you'll beat all the way, and likely bet the river - maybe if the river flushes, it's best to donk as he'll be less likely of bet that after you just call down and probably only raise if he has you crushed)

sharpie · #6 03-29-2007, 01:54 AM

PF call is standard. You're a dog against his range, and I don't see much of an advantage to capping apart from maybe folding out QQ if an A flops.

Usually I'd check/call the flop, check/call a non A or K turn, and maybe donk the river.

texnewb · #7 03-29-2007, 03:49 AM

Because you're OOP against villain I like capping preflop and leading the flop. If he raises, I'm out. If he calls, I lead turn and c/c river UI.
Spew?

martybonus · #8 03-29-2007, 05:06 AM

your PF raise is standard, as is the call.

but if you're saying he's pretty tight, then you could be behind when he 3bangs you. You're a PF favourite against any other PP except QQ+.

A c/r seems the obvious move here. No need to donk because he's almost probably going to bet out after 3betting PF. Even if he's only on OCs, he's probably going to bet.

If he 3bangs you on the flop after your c/r, then it comes down to reads from here. If he's very passive, i'd probably b/f or c/f the turn UI. If he's a TAG, then a call-down is fine. A TAG may well 3bet this flop with TT, but a tight-passive isn't going to unless he's got a Q or an overpair.

More generally, if you have a premium pair and the flop shows 1 OC, push hard. There's no reason to suspect you're behind UNLESS they tell you otherwise. so raise your strong MP for value until he tells you 'MP no g00t'

fdwarrior · #9 03-29-2007, 07:28 AM

i think villain is more tight-passive, so i c/r and he 3-bet me so i'm done with this hand, right ?

fretelöo · #10 03-29-2007, 07:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
your PF raise is standard, as is the call.

but if you're saying he's pretty tight, then you could be behind when he 3bangs you. You're a PF favourite against any other PP except QQ+.

A c/r seems the obvious move here. No need to donk because he's almost probably going to bet out after 3betting PF. Even if he's only on OCs, he's probably going to bet.

If he 3bangs you on the flop after your c/r, then it comes down to reads from here. If he's very passive, i'd probably b/f or c/f the turn UI. If he's a TAG, then a call-down is fine. A TAG may well 3bet this flop with TT, but a tight-passive isn't going to unless he's got a Q or an overpair.

More generally, if you have a premium pair and the flop shows 1 OC, push hard. There's no reason to suspect you're behind UNLESS they tell you otherwise. so raise your strong MP for value until he tells you 'MP no g00t'

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but that's bull.

The only reason for you to c/r HERE is because you think you're ahead. The two possible scenarios are: he calls/folds --> you're ahead, or he 3bets --> you're behind.

C/r, then calling a 3bet because of some funky read you hope to dream up is spew.

Generally, 3betting standards put you in a really ugly situation here. Basically the ONLY thing you're beating is AK. If he has that, you want him to bet, not to fold, as he has precious few outs. So c/r gives him the option to drop his loser and 3bet aaaaaaaaaaaall his winners.

Just call and proceed with caution. Drop to a K/A on the turn, maybe donk a blank river.