Two Pair Problem

[CanSpoilU]

Thoughts on all streets

Main Villan is 29/10/3 over 300 hands.


Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $40.45
UTG+1: $19.50
MP1: $87.85
MP2: $37.60
MP3: $13.40
CanSpoilU: $40.25
Button: $75.35
SB: $21
BB: $77.33

Pre-flop: (9 players) CanSpoilU is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1, folds, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 folds, CanSpoilU calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB (poster) checks.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($3, 6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $2.5</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#cc0000">CanSpoilU raises to $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises all-in $20.5</font>, 4 folds, CanSpoilU ???????

[VisualCSharp]

I think we should all learn our lesson giving any action to reraises with any two pair on boards like this in an unraised pot. How often have you called in this situation and had the best hand? You're drawing to four outs against most of SB's range: 55/67s/A5ss/flush+straight draws. You have to be sure you have the best hand here *and* sure UTG+1 will fold a huge portion of the time.

I might've raised in the CO with 98s though to at least help me define my opponents' hands. If you limp and you hit a board like this, what are you going to do? You need to be sure you're up against overcards/big PP; it makes pushing much easier on this flop. As it stands I think it's an easy fold, especially considering you're not sure what UTG+1 bet with.

[Raisor]

everyone else folded, I'm calling here for 2:1, he's got a draw or worse two pair often enough

[raistlinx]

[ QUOTE ]
everyone else folded, I'm calling here for 2:1, he's got a draw or worse two pair often enough

[/ QUOTE ]
Statements like these make no sense without some math behind them. Defnine "often enough" because for the times he is up against a set he loses alot more in EV than he gains when he is up against a flush draw. But of course there is money in the pot already to be considered, etc, etc.

I'm just saying that it would be nice if people could give more analysis than one line in a more complicated situation like this. Without reads like in a live game, situations like this on line have more to do with the math behind them than a gut feeling.

[Raisor]

its hard to give the SB much of an accurate range in a 6way limped pot. he plays 29/10/3 so he doesnt sound like a solid player. He is checkraising into a big field tho. I am not a math type, I just try to recognize different situations that come up at the table, the more i think about it maybe you're right, with a bet and a raise in front of him he is probly expecting a call: so fold

[CanSpoilU]

Well I called his all-in. He ended up with 67o for the straight and took down the pot. Still not sure if a call here was correct or not.

[hoyasaxa]

i like a raise before the flop

[5string]

I woulda called here as well, 2:1 against this type of player, Long term I think Its a +ev call, In my experience your often against a draw or a riduculous top pair shove. At .25/.50 its easy to overestimate your opponents and lose ev. Very read dependent.

[VisualCSharp]

That's true, I didn't notice everyone folded back around. Even still, in my experience playing micro stakes I'm almost always beat here.

[Albert Moulton]

[ QUOTE ]

I might've raised in the CO with 98s though to at least help me define my opponents' hands.


[/ QUOTE ]

And buy the button.

I like raising here. I don't necessarily auto-cb, however. It would depend on the flop, number of players, number of outs, type of players, etc.

[ QUOTE ]

If you limp and you hit a board like this, what are you going to do? You need to be sure you're up against overcards/big PP; it makes pushing much easier on this flop. As it stands I think it's an easy fold, especially considering you're not sure what UTG+1 bet with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I would fold.