KK weird spot 10/20

danzasmack · #1 03-27-2007, 10:18 PM

UTG is strange, donks weird and i hate because he made the worst "free showdown raise" ever vs me with 8 hi and got there so i want to smack him. Seriously.

UTG+1 Is a 29/22 and playing the part

UTG opens, UTG+1 3-bets, I cold cap KK OTB, both call

flop is QT7r

check, bet, i raise, cold call 2, 3-bet, i cap we all see the turn for 4 SBs

Turn 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] which puts 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]s out there

UTG now donks, UGT+1 insta raises and it's now 2 cold on me

danzasmack · #2 03-27-2007, 10:19 PM

um i don't know why this is here mods please move to MHSH

milesdyson · #3 03-27-2007, 11:04 PM

Fold imo. UTG+1 = teh win. I would never ever cap* him when he bet/3-bets that flop either. What are you supposed to beat? AQ?

*edit: changed 3-bet to cap

joker122 · #4 03-27-2007, 11:16 PM

i think you can find a fold here. utg+1 would have to be reeeally aggro to raise this turn with AQ or even the other KK.

danzasmack · #5 03-28-2007, 01:50 AM

How would you rate his play if i told you he showed down AQ here?

This is one of those hands where donkish seems to border on expert because his raise should fold out KK and since he has AQ my range is weighted towards KK vs AA

QQ is only 1 combo so he really only has to fear TT and if you fold KK to the turn raise, well then his raise is perfect poker, no?

I mean my hand is on the table, right?

danzasmack · #6 03-28-2007, 01:57 AM

In other words, is the expert play to check/call the turn when the turn better doesn't bet, and raise because you now have this opportunity to force out a better hand?

Or is he just being a donkey with AQ here?

and btw this is not a bad beat post i won the hand

JDalla · #7 03-28-2007, 02:39 AM

That's a really tough spot. I probably call down but don't like it. Against players I know are beating the game I'd probably fold.

kiddo · #8 03-28-2007, 04:16 AM

If UTG+1 is 3betting flop because he think he is ahead of you I really dont see how he thinks. He is behind against AA, KK, QQ, TT, he is ahead against AK and JJ and split against AQ. And it isnt sure u would flopraise the hands he can beat so...

UTG+1:s turnraise: I think your description of UTG is to thin. If UTG is pretty bad and donking a lot of draws even in spots like this I can see why he raises AQ because if u 3bet he can easily fold and if he only calls u will raise and he will (probably have to) call so it is 2bets for him on turn both ways.

If I was him I would slow down on flop when u raises and see what happens on turn. But if I was you and thought UTG+1 was good I wouldnt cap flop because I dont see why he would 3bet out of position with AQ or worse hand, unless he thinks you are overaggressive (which I dont know of course).

EDIT: If UTG+1 dont think u are a bit 2 aggressive with not so strong hands I dont think UTG+1 plays this well.

vmacosta · #9 03-28-2007, 05:54 AM

Don't fold.

-AQ still makes up a big part of UTG+1's range.
-I don't buy UTG has a 7 here--donking with trips there is just too expert to be the default for the player you described.

3-betting looks good, but I would probably just call in the heat of the moment though.

william288 · #10 03-28-2007, 09:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That's a really tough spot. I probably call down but don't like it. Against players I know are beating the game I'd probably fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

i found these days online short handed is so loose aggr and tricky. stats can not reflect an unknown's actual playing. i found never folding TP/TK or over pairs are almost right except the board texture is very bad or you have notes on your opponent and your notes support your folding.

i am not folding.