preflop adjustments if sandwitched

[TheWunderkind]

First i want to ask what you do with A9o if a loose passive player sits to your right and a very Bad LAG sits to your LEFT or one player between and the loose passive guy limps.


But now i want to make this more general, the LAG is at least going to call and he will 3 bet the majority of the time and the loose passive one will call but never reraise.
What hand do you suggest to overlimp or raise?

edit: fixed mistake at poster's request
-Leader

[Quebecker]

interesting post, the answers will help me a lot.

[Veron]

[ QUOTE ]
First i want to ask what you do with A9o if a loose passive player sits to your right and a very Bad LAG sits to your right or one player between and the loose passive guy limps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't really get the situation you're trying to point out. Please be a bit more specific, also about the exact position we're playing (for example, are we MP or Button)

[aargh57]

ETA: I'm just concentrating on the second part of the question because it's pretty non-specific and to adress the whole thing would cut into lunch.

OK, If I'm in the CO I won't raise LP with A9os here but on the button I would. Basically by doing this I'm saying that it's ok for me to be playing against 3 players w A9os.

In this situation I think I'd have to have at least AJos if I'm in the CO because now I'm OOP plus there's both blinds to act after LAG and you're going to have to deal with them once in a while.

If I'm in the SB I think that I probably limp w A90s now because raising won't get me HU and I think I lose with my position enough that I don't want to do it. If I get a good flop now I bet and if LAG raises LP has awful odds to call. If I'd have raised pf and LAG 3 bet now there's going to be a lot of bets in the flop so LP will now be getting much better odds to call. I know this sounds weak but I don't see the point in building a pot w A9os OOP here even though we have the better hand on average.

[TheWunderkind]

okay i made a mistake in my Post, the situation is the LP sits to your right and the extreme LAG/Maniac sits to your LEFT.


To make it more easy to understand, it is 5 handed youre otB, UTG ist reasonable TAG; CO ist EXTREME loose passive guys who limps any two(AA and 72o...); sb is tight and BB is an ultra aggro maniac who raises 89o pre, caps any ace and K and bluffs any street unimproved. You can change the maniac to sb and the tight guy to BB i dont think it changes much...so whats your preflop strategie here?

The Situation came up yesterday and i sat with A9o otb and the CO limps like always, i wanted to raise like always but the BB was coming in for sure, he would certainly raise any K any ace or any suited connector there or god knows what else and the LP guys was going to call any raise so my A9o looked pretty bad and i didnt want to play a big pot 3 ways with a loose passive guy and a maniac in there so i i toyed with overlimping in my mind with overlimpng but then i finally folded because i never overlimp with Axo so i dumped it.


The Question ist basicly what adjustemnts do you make when a situation like this comes up.

[Oink]

- The BB and the LP to your right are both bad and plays way too loose.
- You have position on both of them

I would try and play a lot of hands. My premium hands would be easy raises and when BB 3-bets I cap. Say, A8s, ATo, KJs, KQo, 77 or perhaps even looser. Or lot of other hands I would be raising but just call BB's 3-bet. 22-66, Axs, A5o, K5s, K9o, Q9s, Q9o. I would also start overlimping a bunch of suited connectors no gap, 1-gapped and even some 2-gapped like J8s. The implied odds from those two donks are worth it IMO.

BTW, dont take those ranges too literally, they are from the top of my head.

[BrassMonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
interesting post, the answers will help me a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. This happens all the time - good work, Wunderkind.

[sethypooh21]

A9o from the CO is marginal, with lag OTB. ATo is easy raise, IMO. I actually like this spot since LAG will both donate and help me extract more from LP.

[dano]

Why don't you want to play A9o with a loose passive and a maniac? I personally think it's a great hand to play with.

With the loose passive on your right and the maniac on your left, who by your description is a bluff machine post flop, you should be raising your showdown hands like A9o and be happy when the maniac 3-bets. The maniac's 3-betting range is huge and your hand stands to be a favorite, so you're happy when more money goes in. The only negative I suppose is that the pot is larger so that it may make the post flop mistakes that the Loose Passive or maniac will make into smaller mistakes, or sometimes correct plays.

I would not isoraise with drawing type hands like JTs or QJ. However, you should definitely overlimp them, even if you know the maniac will raise. In fact you could even overlimp with some weaker drawing hands. I might even overlimp 97s in the right situation. You don't want to raise because you will get 3-bet without the favorite. You can limp loosely because you can good value out of your hands when you hit the flop. The maniac will bluff his money away and the loose passive will keep calling down weak hands.

Another important adjustment to make is to start paying a lot more attention post flop. You need to see how other players adjust to the maniac's play and if the maniac starts adjusting to their changes.

[TheWunderkind]

[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you want to play A9o with a loose passive and a maniac? I personally think it's a great hand to play with.

With the loose passive on your right and the maniac on your left, who by your description is a bluff machine post flop, you should be raising your showdown hands like A9o and be happy when the maniac 3-bets. The maniac's 3-betting range is huge and your hand stands to be a favorite, so you're happy when more money goes in. The only negative I suppose is that the pot is larger so that it may make the post flop mistakes that the Loose Passive or maniac will make into smaller mistakes, or sometimes correct plays.

[/ QUOTE ]

youre right obv, dunno maybe it was induced of a little bad run + i was not really sure because most of the time ill take it down postflop UI but here i needed to hit a good hand to win and i dont know if its worth to raise Axo then but i guess it is.


[ QUOTE ]
Another important adjustment to make is to start paying a lot more attention post flop. You need to see how other players adjust to the maniac's play and if the maniac starts adjusting to their changes.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a great post i think, i realized how this guy adjusted after i called him don with A or K high once or twice and i think i made some spew A high calldowns after it, i guess against this guy it was not hirrible + i had outs but i tend to calldown those maniacs with A high like always and i think this is a leak in my game. Now after you said this i realized i must adjust better to changing playing styles of fishes and ill make more money of them.