FOLD

[HOWMANY]

Full game. Villain sat down recently and I have not played with him before. It is probably about 8 am and I am tired and frustrated, as I somehow find myself stuck in a magnificent game that I was about even to decent winner in most of the night.

3 folds, villain raises. Fold to me in BB and I call with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I c/r, villain calls.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet, villain calls.

What are you doing on certain river cards? In the actual hand I bet dark because I was planning to bet any river, anyone not like this? I think it's the first time I've ever bet dark in a normal game on the turn/river where I didn't have close to a made nut hand. In a way this might be a bad thing because I almost always get paid off when I do it with my good hands.

[jkamowitz]

I don't like betting dark and I especially don't like it here.

I've read many of your posts and you seem like a totally reliable thinking player. I would assume that maybe your opponent knows this. (He at least sees you as aggressive)By betting dark you ignore the river cards [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]/J/Q/4 and are announcing that you have a draw. Even worse, a smart player may notice this and raise you on a 9/A/K river putting you in a tough spot.

In my opinion, waiting for the river and betting in tempo is the way to go. Make it look like you considered every option even if you didnt.

[poker1O1]

ahh, the dark bet screams weakness here imo. I think I bet any non club river. I wouldn't like betting a T river either.

[HOWMANY]

This is the villain's first orbit at the table and we've never played together, so he hasn't had time yet to form any ideas on whether I'm a maniac, young internet punk, nit, whatever others think of me as. I think I still agree with waiting for the river to bet, because as soon as I did it I thought of a post where someone did something like this and someone replied with "this looks like a X draw".

[golferbrent]

I don't think I would ever dark bet here against an unknown player. However, versus a player you are quite familiar with then I think it is good if you are trying to manipulate your opponent. Unfortunately, here against an unknow player you are just asking to get looked up here. Definitely a bad play unless you hit on the end and got 3 bets in on the river or something crazy.

I just find that you are getting called by a player here almost always by the other player with the dark bet.

[rafiki]

the flop texture is completely wrong for a dark bet.

If you have a flush, no way would you bet dark into a paired board (and he knows this).

If you have a boat, there's just no way you're trying to act this strong.

There's no really scary hand to put you on with the dark situation, and half the deck that could get him to call.

[HOWMANY]

If I was bored I'd probably dark bet quads here once in a while, but that's about it.

The consensus seems to be that the dark bet is even worse than I thought it was, and I thought it was really bad.

[SA125]

When playing/running good I play it the same and somehow take it down. When playing/running bad I c/c the flop and c/f the the turn. It makes more sense than you think.

[B_Movie_Fan]

[ QUOTE ]
It is probably about 8 am and I am tired and frustrated......me in BB

[/ QUOTE ]

Pick up your chips and go home before the BB hits you. If it was me, I'd have just played my last free hand and left.

That said, I don't mind the river bet (either for value if you get there or as a bluff if you miss) but I definitely wouldn't bet blind for all the reasons already given.

[VORP]

Against a raise from MP1 I would fold pf but it's probably not a huge difference.

Given villians line through the turn, the vast majority of his range is some sort weak hand with a club so I would bet any non club river.