88 in the BB blind vs a TAG raise in UTG+2

McNeese72 · #1 03-26-2007, 05:54 PM

Villain is a definite TAG. The button is a LAG who has been donating money to the table.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 4 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls.

My first question is whether I should be in this hand against a TAG who raised in early position? With the button coming along, I decided to call and play for a set.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Button calls, Hero ?.

Now with the flop of low cards but no help, what do I do now? I think I'm up against a higher pocket pair more times than I'm up against overcards. If I'm against a higher pocket pair, I'm only drawing to two outs (if that many due to the flush draw), with pot odds of 1 to 8.5. I think it is a fold.

I probably shouldn't even post this hand now that I've worked my way through it. :-)

Doc

Fadook · #2 03-26-2007, 06:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is a definite TAG. The button is a LAG who has been donating money to the table.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 4 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls.

My first question is whether I should be in this hand against a TAG who raised in early position? With the button coming along, I decided to call and play for a set.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Button calls, Hero ?.

Now with the flop of low cards but no help, what do I do now? I think I'm up against a higher pocket pair more times than I'm up against overcards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see why you think this last bit is true. Many TAGs would play OCs the same way. I raise the flop. Preflop call is absolutely standard.

BionicComma · #3 03-26-2007, 06:11 PM

Fadook has it.

If he calls the flop raise I lead as long as a face card isnt out.

MrWookie · #4 03-26-2007, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fadook has it.

If he calls the flop raise I lead as long as a face card isnt out.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty weak. The only broadway that should give you pause for betting is an A. There are many more broadways than the PFR can have in his hand.

cold_cash · #5 03-26-2007, 06:17 PM

Why do you think you're up against a higher pair more often than overcards?

Since you checked the flop I think the play is to checkraise. (I say "since" because I bet that flop a ton of the time.) The other guy calling in the middle kind of gums up the works a bit, but you pretty much always have him beat and now there's really no good way to leverage him into a mistake. Might as well get an extra bet from him even though he's probably correct to call against your hand with a whole bunch of possible holdings.

I'd bet most turn cards and fold to resistance from the good player and then play poker on the river depending on how the turn shook out.

Just laying down is a mistake for sure though. That's a great flop for you and the TAG has done nothing but raise preflop and make a continuation bet against a blind and a donkey.

kaby · #6 03-26-2007, 06:53 PM

At six max this is an auto c/r, lead out almost all turns for me, but in FR I don't know tbh.

Giving him a TT+ AJs+ AQo+ KQs range he has 53% equity on the flop (pokerstoved, HU for easier analysis), so any bets going in are basicly +ev for him. Unless I'm doing something wrong I begin to doubt a c/r lead turn line vs this range ... I can't see how it would be +ev, but calling down just seems so weak. You can't even fold to a flop 3bet cause he might be doing that for a free card.

Big Folder · #7 03-26-2007, 08:06 PM

I think I donk the flop because a c/r doesn't protect and you're hand is vulnerable.

This is a tough spot. You donk hoping people fold, but also you do it in the hopes that TAG will raise to protect your hand with a hand taht you beat. He might do this with suited broadways, with a backdoor or flush draw because he's aggressive.

I'm thinking, though, maybe it might be best to call the flop and c/r a safe turn card.

tyler_cracker · #8 03-26-2007, 09:23 PM

call preflop c/r flop is the way to play this.

call preflop donk flop is the way to win the minimum and lose the maximum.

texnewb · #9 03-26-2007, 09:31 PM

Preflop you're getting 3.5:1, so while your odds are bad against 99+, it's a definite call against a more likely range (AKo, AJs+, TT+).

On Flop I probably donk and try to figure out from his response and timing if he has whiffed overcards. As played, definitely check raise and lead turn.

Point Blank · #10 03-26-2007, 09:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
call preflop c/r flop is the way to play this.

call preflop donk flop is the way to win the minimum and lose the maximum.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about a donk/3bet line [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

you donk ... the PFR will pretty much raise with whatever he raised with preflop (BTN will call with so many hands) - and then we get to 3bet and PFR will just call wither AA or AK (if AA he raises us on the turn - at which point we can fold)

this sounds like the most fun [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]