help settle a debate and answer a question

[jomatty]

a friend, who i regularly discuss strategy with, and i are having a debate on small pairs and suited connectors in early position in a full ring game.

we were playing 1-2 nl when this discussion started. the debate centers around low limit play but feel free to discuss how it pertains to other limits as well.

i generally will play all pairs from any position unless game conditions are extremely aggressive. i also will often play suited connectors and even some one gappers from early to mid position depending on the situation.

my friend thinks that this is way way to loose. he advises playing only 77+ and sometimes only 88+. we both are pretty set in our opinions and neither one of us is budging.

what is most of you guys default play in these situations? i think the non pair hands are more marginal (but still often profitable) but that the pairs are definitely playable, even utg.

hand values in nl are fairly subjective and there very well may be no "right" way to play in these situation. that said, if some folks would share their default plays and opinions it would be appreciated.

help us settle this debate,
matt

[1p0kerboy]

Online or live play?

[jomatty]

online although feel free to speculate on both

[CopTHIS]

This depends so much on style, how the table is playing, and how they are observing etc. There's not much point in limping a small pair if lots of the time you have to call a big 3-bet to see a flop. On the other hand, they are easy to play generally and worth not folding on most tables IMO.

You also have to think about how it effects the rest of your game. If nobody else notices anything then fine, look at each hand on its own merits, but if they do then you tend to get paid off better with good hands if you play more hands in the first place so your range is wider. I'd add any hands to my range if I thought they would be neutral EV looked at on their own.

With SC, almost everybody loses with these in early position at anything like reasonable stakes. If anyone says otherwise ask them to post post Pokertracker stats over a large number of hands. In later position it's different, and I like to 3-bet them sometimes too. That's not to say you shouldn't play them in early position, but most of the time you'd struggle to say it is EV as such - only that it may (possibly) benefit your game overall.

[1p0kerboy]

I think your friend is generally more right.

Playing draws OOP is a bad idea. The suited connectors have to go.

Playing small pairs up front at this level is also not a good idea. You will get raised out a bunch, and your opponents will not give you proper implied set odds often enough to make it an effective strategy. This may not be the case in a 1/2 live game, however. Or smaller online games for that matter. Also sets tend to extract more money when they are in position.

[jomatty]

one other question is about hands like QTs in early-mid position. playable in mid but not in early? what do you guys think

[1p0kerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
hands like QTs in early-mid position. playable in mid but not in early?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm tossing them but that does not mean it is incorrect to play them in a mid-ish position. Some posters here, like Betgo and FutureDoc, can get away with an unusually loose strategy because they read hands well and have good table control. They are very experienced players and pretty much know what they can and can't get away with at a particular table or in a specific situation. The fact that you are asking these questions suggests that it would be a good idea for you to be folding these hands in these spots.

[jomatty]

dont read too much into the fact that i am asking these questions. i am checking my thinking on it, but more than anything else i am trying to settle a debate with a friend. i have earned my living for the past 4 years playing poker so i am not exactly inexperienced. the only way we agreed to settle this debate was to post about it.

thx,
matt

[raistlinx]

[ QUOTE ]
dont read too much into the fact that i am asking these questions. i am checking my thinking on it, but more than anything else i am trying to settle a debate with a friend. i have earned my living for the past 4 years playing poker so i am not exactly inexperienced. the only way we agreed to settle this debate was to post about it.

thx,
matt

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL @ stating you have made your living for 4 years playing poker online AND having to go to a forum full of unknown people to settle such a fundamental question in the same post.

[jomatty]

this is a friend of mine who i met online and lives in england. i could ask my friends or he could ask his but there is not a single person in world that we both know. so unknown people seem like the best option.

i think the answer is simple and so does he, unfortunatley we both think the answer is different.

i regretted mentioning that i played for a living after i made the post as i knew i would have someone post something like this. if it makes you feel any better im obviously not doing that well since im presently playing 1-2 and 2-4 nl. i manage to make enough to support my family and not much else, i certainly wasnt bragging about my skills as obviously there are a number of things im doing incorrectly or i would have met with more success. i was simply trying to explain that i do not think that it is fair to assume that im inexperienced.

for the record since youve commented that the answer is simple and fundamental would you mind sharing your answer like the others who answered did or do you just want to break my balls some more?

matty