Do you fold in any of those hands?

[Black winter day]

Villains in both hands are pretty solid TAGs, no special reads.
Hand 2 was played by my friend.

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $544
UTG+1: $128.25
CO: $532.50
Button: $677.25
SB: $726.52
Hero: $1322.01

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
4 folds, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($10, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $8</font>, SB calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($26, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $18</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $50</font>, Hero calls.

River: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($126, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $95</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $250</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises all-in $663.52</font>

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $200
UTG+1: $1067
MP1: $3418.75
MP2: $1580
Hero: $3854
Button: $1591
SB: $1696
BB: $1112

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is CO with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
4 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $30</font>, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($65, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($65, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $40</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $80</font>, Hero calls.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($225, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $250</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises all-in $1002</font>

[Black winter day]

Btw, reraise in hand 1 is mandatory, noone just calls his bet, right?

[xorbie]

Hand 1 is definitely a raise/fold.

Hand 2 is a lot harder but I don't think it's an easy call by any means. The [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] river matters. Also please bet the flop.

[Black winter day]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 is definitely a raise/fold.

Hand 2 is a lot harder but I don't think it's an easy call by any means. The [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] river matters. Also please bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, you raise hand 1 to 250 (or more?) and fold if he shoves?

Hand 2 wasn't played by me, i'd bet the flop.
My friends says he played AK recently the same way (raised preflop, checked missed flop), so he tryed to represent a delayed cbet by firing the turn.

[BobboFitos]

interesting hands.

hand 1 i think you can find a fold, but pf i raise
turn with the paired board you can consider folding, as well.
river i like the raise and i like a fold, although i wonder what he had (i love results) so i hope you called (although 65% looks like 78)

hand 2 just bet the flop and take it from there. i dont fold this btw, ppl could value c/push AT or KT not just JT or T9. Hell, way it was played, he could have bdoor flush or a straight. pretty easy call actually.

[fslexcduck]

fold both, i don't think it's close. i think 2 is an easier fold than 1 fwiw

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
fold both, i don't think it's close. i think 2 is an easier fold than 1 fwiw

[/ QUOTE ]

hand 2 we checked the flop
and villain checked flop and turn
then minraised
then checked the river

if he has a boat, kudos to him, but thats like FPS to the max

just pay it off. you have a FULL HOUSE!!!!!!!

[fslexcduck]

do you see how much he bet on the river? more than pot. do you really think naked trips or really anything but a boat is shoving there? dude, hand reading... srsly. it's a boat or a bluff and usually a boat.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
do you see how much he bet on the river? more than pot. do you really think naked trips or really anything but a boat is shoving there? dude, hand reading... srsly. it's a boat or a bluff and usually a boat.

[/ QUOTE ]

'dude', hand reading 101 works both ways. hero's hand looks like trash. if villain has a flush or straight (AND EVEN TRIPS) it looks like the nuts.

yes, the shove is a little more then the pot, but 2 qs..
1. if you value c/r here (and value can be constricted to the 1st nuts or 2nd nuts) are you ever not checkpushing? any other raise is weird, unless you minraise alot
2. if villain boated on the turn, its pretty weird to c/r the min and then c/r the max, no? this can so easily be a picked up draw which thinks hero is fos and risks the min. then they cream their pants (dudes do this) when he hits, and c/pushes.

[Jman28]

[ QUOTE ]

yes, the shove is a little more then the pot, but 2 qs..

[/ QUOTE ]

I think duck means the Hero's bet of 250 into 225, which I hate btw.

I dunno. If the read of 'Solid TAG' is a strong read, I think I fold both. If they're mostly unknowns at 5/10 I think I call both.