Badugi river decision - 3 pat hands

*TT* · #1 03-22-2007, 06:10 AM

10/20 dealers choice game with myself, Death Donkey, Joe Tall, Mike L, Justin A, and two wild gambling locals. DD is playing every hand (standard), Joe Tall is running bad but playing pretty well, and I've made some really bad decisions while drunk - but I'm beginning to sober up now, not sure if anyone has noticed yet besides Joe that I've had 3 coffees in the past hour.

The pot is huge, probably 12 or more BB. Joe was pat on the prior street, DD, the gamb00ler, and myself call - all drawing 1 card (actually DD might have drawn 2 cards) - I catch a 2765 Badugi. River - Death Donkey bets into the field, gamb00ler mucks, Joe Tall looks up confused on the button - <u>whats my action</u>? Death Donkey probably knows Joe is calling nearly anything, or at a minimum Joe is raising the river, but he is almost never folding here.

Discuss the river, who likes a call, who likes a raise and why?

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

andywend · #2 03-22-2007, 06:38 AM

A flat call is the best option here.

If you raise, the chances are Joe will either 3 bet or fold.

Also, I'm assuming Joe knows how loose DD is and might not give you credit for a huge hand and overcall with a mediocre Badugi.

2461Badugi · #3 03-22-2007, 12:06 PM

Given the environment of the game, calling and folding to three from DD but threebetting JT would be pretty sexy.

Given that I can't handread since you didn't show any earlier streets, I think by default you raise, which might save you a bet if they both have better hands. If you have the best hand JT will probably call anyway, given your image.

*TT* · #4 03-22-2007, 12:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Given the environment of the game, calling and folding to three from DD but threebetting JT would be pretty sexy.

Given that I can't handread since you didn't show any earlier streets, I think by default you raise, which might save you a bet if they both have better hands. If you have the best hand JT will probably call anyway, given your image.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't fold that had to a 3-bet in this game. Too much action, huge pot. To clarify DD leads into the field, I'm next, and Joe Tall is on the river - just in case because I think you had the action backwards in your response, does that change it at all? Also Joe can find a fold with a bad Badugi like a K or a Q if I raise I think, god only knows what happens to DD - whats his donking range? I think it means he is very weak and is trying to force a fold, or is VERY strong is trying to encourage a raise.

2461Badugi · #5 03-22-2007, 12:39 PM

No, I have the action right. Call, JT raises, if DD threebets him you can fold, but if he just calls, threebet. If JT doesn't raise he probably would have folded to your raise anyway, so you risk less to win the same.

And I'm 100% confident that if DD bet-threebets JT's protected-pot raise you can safely fold.

Phat Mack · #6 03-22-2007, 01:05 PM

A) OK, this may be a little difficult to accept, but when you're drunk and have had three coffees in the last hour, you should try to fold as many hands as possible. You're not getting sober, you just think you're getting sober--you're only more awake. (When you give coffee to a drunk, you just get a wide-awake drunk.) You haven't just made a 7, you've just paired your jack. FOLD!

B) You've just made a 7--RAISE! WTF are you thinking about? You're in there against a Jack and an A24.

MrFizzbin · #7 03-22-2007, 03:27 PM

What is Joe likely to stand pat with. Is 8 or 9 badugi possible ? I like the hand, I'd play to max the bets (and probably get my butt kicked). If I think Joe is going re-pop, I call let him pop and if Donkey re-pops the re-pop, I call. If donkey just calls the re-pop I tap it again when it comes to me. Of course I've never played Badugi so I'll get flamed.

*TT* · #8 03-22-2007, 10:27 PM

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What is Joe likely to stand pat with. Is 8 or 9 badugi possible ?

[/ QUOTE ]

ANY Badugi is possible, and he should always stand once he gets one!

*TT* · #9 03-22-2007, 10:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No, I have the action right. Call, JT raises, if DD threebets him you can fold, but if he just calls, threebet. If JT doesn't raise he probably would have folded to your raise anyway, so you risk less to win the same.

And I'm 100% confident that if DD bet-threebets JT's protected-pot raise you can safely fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, thats what I was thinking as well at the time. And yep you got the action right [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

*TT* · #10 03-22-2007, 10:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A) OK, this may be a little difficult to accept, but when you're drunk and have had three coffees in the last hour, you should try to fold as many hands as possible. You're not getting sober, you just think you're getting sober--you're only more awake. (When you give coffee to a drunk, you just get a wide-awake drunk.) You haven't just made a 7, you've just paired your jack. FOLD!

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, thats fantastic. I don't advise drinking Bacardi 151 spiked Mango Lasses followed by 3 large scotches and actually be able to focus. BIG Mistake [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
B) You've just made a 7--RAISE! WTF are you thinking about? You're in there against a Jack and an A24.

[/ QUOTE ]

Joe wont stand with A23, he needs a Badugi (at least I think so). I'm really up against two Badugis. A clean 9 is a median, my hand is far better than the average. But against two other Badugis... I dont know if its really that strong anymore.

Additionally lets analize each player's thoughts. If DD leads into the field he either has a monster and expects to get 3-bet, or a very soft hand looking to induce a fold from Joe. Joe is smart enough to fold on the river with a crap hand, but he will likely call a raise with a clean Q or better. So if I raise I think DD folds quite often, especially if Joe calls. Tricky eh?