Lost, 88 in sb

Redeye · #1 03-20-2007, 10:26 PM

BB is 30/22/1.4 from 50 hands of stats. This is only my 2nd orbit at the table. Other villian is unknown.

I feel like I played this hand poorly. Maybe I should c/r the flop, but I don't feel that accomplishes anything here, and I certainly don't have the equity on the flop.

Should I have called the flop and donked the turn? If so, what is my line if raised? Otherwise, what is the best line here?

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, CO calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero?

sweetjazz · #2 03-20-2007, 10:38 PM

I like how you've played it so far. Definitely check the turn and see what happens. Consider folding if BB bets and CO calls again. At this point, you're basically hoping that BB has AK/AQ and CO has Ax or 66/44/33/22.

The board is blankish enough that I think BB will fire again on the turn if he has AK/AQ. If the CO folds, you probably have a thin turn call on the combination of your 2 8s as outs plus the river could get checked through with you having the best hand. If the CO hangs around, I'd only call if he's pretty donkish postflop.

The other option is to lead out on the turn, but (1) if you get raised, you forfeit your two outs to the (practical) nuts and (2) you still have an awkward river decision (check/fold? bet/fold for value?) with less info than if you had checked the turn instead.

Redeye · #3 03-21-2007, 09:36 PM

I wanna bump this. I posted this last night, and I think its a bit of a tough spot.

I'll continue the turn action:

I checked, BB checked, CO bet

Assuming people think checking is better than donk-folding here. What is my play?

PoorTom · #4 03-21-2007, 10:26 PM

alright i'll take a stab. play looks good to me so far.

it's close i think, but i probably call the turn. a c/r from BB is unlikely, and overcards are still just about a big enough part of both villians' ranges to call in a big pot.

BB has overs most of the time I'm pretty sure, occasionally a big pair. CO is a worry, trips is most likely but a good or loose player might bet there with anything after being checked to. if you knew CO was weak/passive it would be an obvious fold.

i'd check and probably call a bet on any river below Q and expect to lose. overcards will check behind a fair bit so you may even see the showdown cheap.

MacGuyV · #5 03-21-2007, 10:37 PM

I know it's tough to "trust" anyone u only have 50 hands on but I think most of us overestimate how much people will raise the turn w/ a worse hand. I still check the a lot though [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]; not sure anyone really knows what to do w/ not much of a read.

Redeye · #6 03-21-2007, 11:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
it's close i think, but i probably call the turn. a c/r from BB is unlikely, and overcards are still just about a big enough part of both villians' ranges to call in a big pot.

BB has overs most of the time I'm pretty sure, occasionally a big pair. CO is a worry, trips is most likely but a good or loose player might bet there with anything after being checked to. if you knew CO was weak/passive it would be an obvious fold.

i'd check and probably call a bet on any river below Q and expect to lose. overcards will check behind a fair bit so you may even see the showdown cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, not a lot of interest in this one. My turn play might change that because it might be bad. I c/red COs turn bet and was planning to fold to a 3-bet.

My reasoning was as follows: I thought that folding to a turn 3-bet would be really easy here. I was representing a J with my flop call and turn raise. I think that CO will bet with a number of hands here when no one shows much interest. He could have a J, but he could have AK, AQ, AT, etc. Any number of hands that have a reasonable number of outs against me in this decent pot. If I could force a fold here that would be nice.

I think looking back on it, with the fact that CO was an unknown, I should have just called him down. I'd like to see what people think though. (Yes, I do play like a donkey)

yourface · #7 03-22-2007, 12:32 AM

we really really really shouldn't be putting ourselves in positions where we talk ourselves into folding in big pots for one more bet, especially vs unknowns. spending those 2 bets to guarantee a showdown is much better.

I understand your reasoning about forcing out the BB, but I think our hand doesn't have enough equity here to be worrying about protecting it given the action so far.

Oink · #8 03-22-2007, 03:17 AM

Interesting hand and a tough spot on the turn.

I generally agree with both Sweetjazz and MacGuyV. I like checking the turn cuz then I can fold if BB bets again and CO calls. On the other hand I also agree that at 2p2 we generally overestimate how often Hero wil be raised of the best hand by bet/folding. In particular in a 3-way pot against a BB that doesnt seem to be expert. (The thing about bet/folding is that observant players start raising me in every damn pot later on).

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, not a lot of interest in this one. My turn play might change that because it might be bad. I c/red COs turn bet and was planning to fold to a 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have just called because BB basically showed his AK. I know that raising shuts out BB's AK but Hero doesnt have eq IMO to be that worried about BB drawing profitably with his oc's.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #9 03-22-2007, 03:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wanna bump this. I posted this last night, and I think its a bit of a tough spot.

I'll continue the turn action:

I checked, BB checked, CO bet

Assuming people think checking is better than donk-folding here. What is my play?

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn play isnt that tough, just listen to Sweetjazz. Once you check the turn and the BB checks that the CO bets, its time to check/raise.

Carmine · #10 03-22-2007, 06:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wanna bump this. I posted this last night, and I think its a bit of a tough spot.

I'll continue the turn action:

I checked, BB checked, CO bet

Assuming people think checking is better than donk-folding here. What is my play?

[/ QUOTE ]

The turn play isnt that tough, just listen to Sweetjazz. Once you check the turn and the BB checks that the CO bets, its time to check/raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

What rivers are we bet/folding, C/calling, C/folding. I'm assuminmg we are not bet/calling anything.