found a cheat that is made possible by online poker?

mvdgaag · #1 03-19-2007, 01:11 PM

I'm posting this here, because it also involves a kind of a theoretical question and also I'm not sure where else to post this as the menu is a b*tc*. So please tell me if I'm at the wrong place.

I'm not even sure if I should post this at all, because I might give some people ideas, but I'll trust your integrity and hope publicity will help prevent the following:

I've experienced this a couple of times (on party). I make a big riverbet and someone decides to pull his internet plug and gets a showdown for what is in the pot, not having to call my big riverbet when they time out. They are back the next hand. One player did this several times to me at 5NL (jblade100). This is cheating in my opinion, because he does not have to risk more money to get a showdown, so it negates my valuebets and bluffing and therefore also his RIO.

I reported this player, but I do not see how partypoker can do anything about it, since it would probably be at the cost of disconnect protection if they do something.

I've got two questions: How to adjust to players that cheat like this (except for not playing against them). How to handle this with the poker client (I've reported him, and heard nothing as of yet).

Hope to hear your opinions.

cdlarmore · #2 03-19-2007, 01:15 PM

When a player constantly does this, the internet site will investigate and disallow all in disconnect protects for the player, which means that even in legitimate situations, he will be screwed [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

johnnyrocket · #3 03-19-2007, 01:21 PM

yea they take it away for when he actually needs them so jokes on him and not a cheat unless u use it scarcely

mvdgaag · #4 03-19-2007, 03:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
unless he uses it scarcely

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope this is true and they'll put an end to hsi cheating soon.

Albert Moulton · #5 03-19-2007, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
unless he uses it scarcely

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope this is true and they'll put an end to hsi cheating soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I used to play at party at the beginning of last year, they had No DP (No Disconnect Protect) tables. You can always choose to play there.

mvdgaag · #6 03-19-2007, 04:54 PM

Ah thanks! Although party crashed two times in the last month and I think I'll lose more from crashes w/o disconnect protect han from cheaters with it.

JaredL · #7 03-19-2007, 06:28 PM

mvd,

Posting this here is fine IMO. If it was just "OMG THIS GUY KEEPS DISCONNECTING" it would go in Internet Gambling or BBV depending on the angle you're taking for the body of the post. The Theory part would be adjusting to a game in which people cheat in this manner, and possibly a discussion of how to determine whether people are actually cheating or if it's just variance.

If you notify Party they will tell you that they've looked into the history and either the guy has no history of disconnecting at the important times and they'll keep an eye on it in the future, or he has a history of it and they'll remove his disconnect protects.

I'm not sure if they have an algorithm that determines the likelihood that people are cheating. I doubt it, I would assume that when people complain they look at the guys history and his disconnects are somehow stored or possibly they just log the complaints and shut him down when there are a few of them. An algorithm would be interesting IMO. Disconnects are random and (hopefully) rare. You are much more likely to disconnect at a random time than an important one, especially if you play reasonably tightly. They should take into account the gain (in EV say) from disconnecting each time. If you've folded and disconnect obviously you gain nothing. If you have the mortal nuts and disconnect it's negative. If you have the nut flush draw in a huge pot and are facing a huge bet that doesn't give the odds then the gain is very large. I don't know what they record on their end, but if they recorded all disconnects and for each measured how much you gained by disconnecting that would be a good start to automatically nailing cheaters like this.

As for how to play against the guy, there are various ways that his disconnecting changes things. Firstly, after the flop he isn't likely to have a lot of implied odds relative to regular players. If he has a straight draw, he's more likely to disconnect rather than hope to have a big payoff if he hits his straight. Another factor is obviously that you won't be as able to price him out of draws. You will mainly make money off him preflop and situations where he thinks he's ahead.

Thinking about the above, it occurs to me that basically what he's doing is similar strategically to short stacking. It's not entirely the same of course because he can for example call preflop with a small pair hoping to hit a set and bury you. That means that small pot hands go up in value and big pot hands go down. You are less likely to get it in with a small set. However, hands like KJo are going to go up in value. They normally lose value due to reverse implied odds, but as said above you are less likely to get stacked in the case of the other guy hitting.

One caveat, however, is that if you make a big bet with top pair good kicker and he calls, you could be in bad shape. You haven't said much else about his play, but you can at least rule out him drawing which will tighten his range significantly.

These are my first thoughts, sorry that they're somewhat random and disorganized.

Jared

mvdgaag · #8 03-19-2007, 07:11 PM

I agree on your thoughts. His hands need good showdown value, because he is getting a free showdown when disconnecting. The money he is going to win is going to be put in on the early streets. His RIO, your implied odds, will be gone, therefore drawing hands are less playable. And you cannot set up a bluff, there is no way you should bluff this player.

About his stats, he's a tricky 40/18 player. Too loose, but hard to put on a hand.

RobNottsUk · #9 03-20-2007, 07:21 AM

Many sites ration 'disconnects', and I think some have 'no All In' protection cash tables, as well as disabling 'All In' protection in tourneys.

You're right, only it's a well known way. Particularly if you have draw on the flop and face a large re-raise etc etc.

MingoJingo · #10 03-20-2007, 07:58 AM

I don't play much at Party, but recently railed a heads up $5-$10 limit game, the flop was near to being capped, and the turn was bet and then reraised. The big stack disconnected and exactly what you described happened. The guy came back for the next hand with a LOL and left the table.