A passive line

jkamowitz · #1 03-18-2007, 04:55 PM

The game is playing relatively straightforward and passive.

utg is a good friend and fellow 2+2er. He plays well for sure but has been running bad. he has pretty strict positional opening standards and rarely gets out of line.

He opens, everyone folds to me with JJ otb, and I 3-bet.

Headsup as we smile at each other and lick our chops at playing headsup.

Flop: 963r, He donks, I call.

Turn 7, he bets, I call.

River 10 he bets, I call.

Justin A · #2 03-18-2007, 05:28 PM

I raise the flop here pretty much always because it gives up much less about my hand as the streets progress.

VLADEdivac · #3 03-18-2007, 06:21 PM

you have to put more bets in at some point yo i would say flop<turn

Moneyline · #4 03-18-2007, 09:08 PM

I don't think this line is bad if UTG thinks you play predictable ABC poker, meaning you would raise with hands that are likely ahead, but take a different line with hands that are behind. If you really relish playing against each other, he may also be running a naked bluff just to try to get the better of you, but would fold if you played back.

Under normal circumstances, however, I'm probably raising the flop, although I'd frequently call on the flop and pop a reasonably safe turn.

EDIT: Edited for atrocious grammar, which is still pretty bad.

Just my opinion...

MitchL · #5 03-19-2007, 12:49 AM

You know him. If he has overs you have to raise. If he only has an overpair u have to fold. The times he will have overs should out number the times he has a set/overpair. Pump it!

meep_42 · #6 03-19-2007, 01:16 AM

Is he betting the river with overs enough to call? You don't beat anything he'd open with UTG except an Ace-face or the possible KQ.

-d

djeric1 · #7 03-19-2007, 01:43 PM

I was opponent in this hand... a couple of quick notes that may influence the situation a little..

As OP said, I had been running bad and not only that, but maybe was a little tilty towards OP after a wild hand where his 33 beat my KK in a 20 BB pot... that said, my PF hand ranges weren't really affected by the tilt towards my friend. Still playing TAG, and sort of liked the fact that we'd be heads up in a hand.

I won't give away the outcome of the hand just yet, but just wanted to give my opinion on the line against me... Villain pretty much knows (I raised UTG) I have a PP higher than fives, or two big overcards.. hand ranges were pretty transparent here. I thought there was a slight possibility he could be 3-betting me light, but knew he likely had a hand...

Anyway, flop comes 963r.. I donk him with a PP or overcards.. if I have a good PP, I'm almost definitely going to showdown, and if I have overcards, I'm very likely to fold UI on the turn if he raises the flop. So I see no value in raising the flop.. turn comes 7, and I bet again.. now if I have a PP, he's only beating 88 and TT at this point, and if I have overcards, I'm folding to a raise. So I like the call too. River comes T, and suddenly, he's beating no PPs in my hand range, and only beating overcards... obviously no value in a raise, so he calls again. I like his line a lot and I think it loses the least when beaten, and actually wins the most against me when I'm BSing him... I think in this situation, especially since we know each other, this was the ideal line...

-Eric

Grease · #8 03-19-2007, 03:45 PM

Josh,

Two hands stick out in my mind that I played against the villian in question. The first one is when I had TT and 3-bet his EP raise and he capped PF with KK, and the second is when I 3-bet with AA and he capped with KK again. That leads me to believe that he could 4-bet a PP PF here, especially OOP, but he may play more differently against you than he does against me.

I do like your line though, because you force him to keep betting, in the hopes that you have UI A high, but you don't let him punish you if he's ahead, nor fold if he's behind. I don't really like your chances at showdown though, since I think he's probably C/Cing the river with A high and betting only a bigger pocket pair. I think I could find a fold (but I'd probably call anyways), but again, he might play different against you than he does against me.

gaming_mouse · #9 03-19-2007, 04:20 PM

Is he capable of 3betting the turn with AK? Sounds like not, and if not, I raise the turn.

private joker · #10 03-19-2007, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if I have overcards, I'm very likely to fold UI on the turn if he raises the flop. So I see no value in raising the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? Getting you to fold 6 clean outs on the turn is fine by me. And if you have 88, it's 4 outs. I just play this hand straightforward and raise the flop, bet the turn.