Adjusting to People Who 3-bet Light

[jjb108]

We play µSNL. We lurk the other no limit forums. We try to play like the big boys we see on TV.

There have been a couple of developments in my short online career since the days of Party 50bb stacks (Boy I miss Party, I really, really miss Party Poker).

6-max Tables: The first was the rise of 6max play which now dominates the forums. You get to play more hands in more marginal situations which is +EV for skilled players and variance city for the rest of us marginal winners and the losers.

This paved the way for the follow adjustments to 6-max play

Raising PP from any position: With less players in the hand, the mantra became raise any PP from any position. It was a great adjustment and counter to full table play most of us had still running in our brains. Raise 33 from up front. Full ring, you will run into a hand and this is a spew. In 6 max, you’ll run into less hands and making sets in a raised pot is sweet. So what did the players good at adjusting do????

3-betting light: The next big change was to 3-bet light. People raise any PP from any position (they’ll have stats like 24/18 or 28/20 will often have crap so I can 3-bet them and they’ll have to fold. Again, this is a sweet adjustment. It has resulted in me being 3-bet into oblivion last night at 50NL on a Friday night. WTFIWT. How do we adjust? The answer is scattered on the boards but I think this adjustment is one of the best for µSNL.

Open raise less in EP with low PP’s: This isn’t a razor commercial. We’ve got 5 blades and they’re really sharp. You’ve got 3-bets. I’ve got 4. No, the answer, especially for µSNL, is not 4-betting light. If you can handle 4-betting light at µSNL where people who 3-bet light snap call and AI with 33, remember me fondly as you rise through the ranks to the big game. No the answer is that IF you have a 3-betting light Bozo at your table to the left, you simply tighten your PF raising requirements in EP. Keep raising whatever on the button. From EP, you can’t stand the pressure of a 3-bet so why make it. See this hand for discussion and example.
See this hand for discussion and example. (chasern1)

Note, you can limp call a raise and still be in a raised pot to hit a set, although you can’t c-bet and take it down.

Here is the outcome, you’re not spewing off 4-5bb’s when 3-bet. When you do get 3-bet, you’ll have the goods and will be playing in a reraised pot or simply 4bet his weak-@ss AI. He may stop 3-betting light and then its time to open up your range again.

Again, as you’re learning the game and playing at the micros, tightening up is goot. Make the adjustment when you have people with stats like 24/19 or 20/20 on your left.

Here's a couple more links of interest. There are others.

Thoughts on the Current State of SSNL 74oClownsuit

Playing Back at 3-bets Barrin6

[freedom18]

i like it thx :]

[corsakh]

IMHO people do not 3bet light all that much in micros. So my answer is table selection if necessary.

[prodonkey]

OP.. I like to mix in a little of both when someone is going crazy with the 3 bets.. sometimes i repop.. sometimes i just check call him down if he's the type to keep firing. Totally agree with corsakh though.. not much of this at unl.. i keep thinking there is more than there is.. and I keep getting stacked with AK lol

[jjb108]

[ QUOTE ]
IMHO people do not 3bet light all that much in micros.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Totally agree with corsakh though.. not much of this at unl.. i keep thinking there is more than there is.. and I keep getting stacked with AK lol

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I'll disagree as there is much more 3-betting than before. Therefore the 3-bet is lighter than before.

What kind of of PFR do you guys have, I've been in the 15-20 range (edit to add) and VPIP of 20-28. At this PFR, people are starting to play back at me.

In addition to the thread I linked to, there's this thread by avfletch Where we we're in a tough position with JJ again.

Also, from a single session Friday night (edit I'm running 25/15 in this session). I saw 4 3bets. One was shown down, QQ. One other is likely the goods. Maybe Kolotoure is sitting at all my tables.



Full Tilt Poker
$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
Hero (UTG): $50
CO: $62.65
BTN: $131.75
SB: $71.2
BB: $15.65

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> K Q ($0.75, 5 players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $4.50</font>, BTN folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero folds

Full Tilt Poker
$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
6 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
MP: $58.70
CO: $49.65
Hero (BTN): $104.85
SB: $50
BB: $58.3
UTG: $51.25

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Q A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($0.75, 6 players)
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $5.75</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $9.75</font>, Hero folds


Full Tilt Poker
$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
UTG: $17.5
Hero (MP): $51.90
CO: $26.80
BTN: $7
SB: $24.25

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> 8 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($0.75, 5 players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, CO calls $1.75, BTN calls $1.75, <font color="red">SB raises to $8</font>, UTG folds, Hero folds



Full Tilt Poker
$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
SB: $47.75
BB: $49.5
Hero (UTG): $52.45
CO: $85.40
BTN: $36.20

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> 5 5 ($0.75, 5 players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, CO calls $1.75, <font color="red">BTN raises to $8</font>, SB folds, BB folds, Hero folds,

[Gelford]

3 betting light is still an uncommon at uNL and basically I think your advice is ... well not flawed perhaps, but not spot on.

Telling people to tighten up in general is meh imho. Btw, you wont see much 3betting of ep raises with air unless playing donks.


But let us look at it closer, what we need to discern is that there are two player types (there are more, but let us just simplify)

1. The Gus Hansen wannabe donk that is just abeshit aggro (perhaps running 40/30)

2. The skilled 2+2'er or regular working hard on his game. (running between 18/17 and 25/20 or similar)

Now against nr. 1, sure tighten up ... but don't play fit or fold, that will get you eaten ... just get a premium hand (TT+, AJ+ maybe less) and flip. That is my approach.


Against nr. 2 ... well if he is raising ep raises chances are that he has some thing good. If he is threebetting co or btn raises, chances are he is light. And then you just have to play poker, but fourbetting is an option here (not fourbet pushing, but just fourbetting). But this is where poker starts, even at the micros, we forget that while uNL is soft, most of the troublesome villians are of the same skilllevels as ourselves, in other words 2+2'ers or others that work on their game, but yet have to move up.


PFR without VPIP is meaningless btw.

I've crushed 25NL with both 28/26 and 15/14 ... but that is a semibrag. My natural game, where I am most comfortable is 18/17.

[Gelford]

Your hands are not good ... there are no reads of villians, you can't just post some threebets and not have any reads.

All in all, I'd fold all of the hands .... basically only 4 threebets is well ... there is nothing there, that speaks against villians holding either AA/KK or AK

[jjb108]

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Your hands are not good ... there are no reads of villians, you can't just post some threebets and not have any reads.

All in all, I'd fold all of the hands .... basically only 4 threebets is well ... there is nothing there, that speaks against villians holding either AA/KK or AK

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Its a 50 hand session! They are all trivial folds. The only intent is to show that I have recently seen a lot of 3-bets preflop and I'm not asking for analysis.

Yes sample size is small.

[Gelford]

Yeah I know ... but still, you do reads [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


Is villian a thinking player that will fold to a light fourbet or is he a moron that will felt anything. You are afraid of the latter it seems from your op.

But if that is the case, you really shouldn't be, since he will pay off your big hands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (But if you never raise a hand then he might not though)

Just play as you usually do and do not think much of it, if 3betting villian seems intelligent, then you might want to repop him light once every blue moon else just wait for something solid and take him to valuetown.

[jjb108]

[ QUOTE ]
Now against nr. 1, sure tighten up ... but don't play fit or fold, that will get you eaten ... just get a premium hand (TT+, AJ+ maybe less) and flip. That is my approach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reasonable and I like having these guys at my table. These guys are beatable, its just a question of who at the table gets his money or he leaves.

As stated, My focus with the player who's running more 24/20 etc. Table selection is certainly an option but I'm not at the table for long if there aren't some loose players.

There are significantly more 3-bets than when I played at Party. It started increasing after AJFenix post.

The consensus is that its not an issue at µSNL. I still see it at 50NL at FT. Since I'm seeing it, I think the first step is tightening up in early position when I get good players at my table.

Table selection is the other. Anyone else have some suggestions?