Big pocket pairs facing turn overbets

yawak · #1 03-16-2007, 11:11 AM

hand 1: Villain is 40/9/1.5.

BB ($942.20)
Hero ($388.00)
MP ($401.45)
Button ($421.30)
SB ($55.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $16, MP calls $16, 3 folds.

Flop: ($38) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $30, MP raises to $78, Hero calls $48.

Turn: ($194) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $307.45 (All-In), Hero ???

Hand 2: No read on villain.

SB ($617.40)
BB ($441.30)
UTG ($306.20)
Hero ($395.60)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $4, Hero raises to $20, SB calls $18, 1 fold, UTG folds.

Flop: ($48) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $8, Hero raises to $48, SB raises to $88, Hero calls $40.

Turn: ($224) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $509.4 (All-In), Hero???

Outside Box · #2 03-16-2007, 11:39 AM

1) muck

2) call

axioma · #3 03-16-2007, 11:45 AM

fold both.

obiedman · #4 03-16-2007, 11:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1) muck

2) call

[/ QUOTE ]

what's the difference here between hand one and hand two? why are we calling one and folding the other?

i'd say muck both of them

Outside Box · #5 03-16-2007, 11:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) muck

2) call

[/ QUOTE ]

what's the difference here between hand one and hand two? why are we calling one and folding the other?

i'd say muck both of them

[/ QUOTE ]

hand 1: villain calls in position - and is playing on a double paired board which OP has no piece of

hand 2: villain calls OOP (so I rule out T9/A9 enless the guy is terrible obviously reads would help here) - and is playing on a 2flush/paired board... I didn't see action on the flop (his 8$ bet is mad weird) with proper bet sizing I'd be more inclined to call, but considering how weird his bets are I guess he might have 22/A9/9x here so yeah a fold is better.

Hattifnatt · #6 03-16-2007, 12:01 PM

1) call
2) muck

obiedman · #7 03-16-2007, 12:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) muck

2) call

[/ QUOTE ]

what's the difference here between hand one and hand two? why are we calling one and folding the other?

i'd say muck both of them

[/ QUOTE ]

hand 1: villain calls in position - and is playing on a double paired board which OP has no piece of

hand 2: villain calls OOP (so I rule out T9/A9 enless the guy is terrible obviously reads would help here) - and is playing on a 2flush/paired board... I didn't see action on the flop (his 8$ bet is mad weird) with proper bet sizing I'd be more inclined to call, but considering how weird his bets are I guess he might have 22/A9/9x here so yeah a fold is better.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think you're probably overestimating how often a villain can have T9/A9 here in hand 2. From my experience there are a ton of players, including regulars, who call oop with these types of hands, and i wouldn't be surprised at all to see villain show up with T9/89/whatever.

The $8 bet is kinda weird though, and i'm not quite sure what to make of it

berserk · #8 03-16-2007, 01:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1) call
2) muck

[/ QUOTE ]

jamiezig · #9 03-16-2007, 02:41 PM

1) fold if it's the first time you've seen him act this way. 40% vpip means he's calling w/all sorts of junk and a 5 or 8 is v. likely.
2) baby donk bets and min 3-bets set off all sorts of alarms for me. with no reads or history, i'm probably gone ( or at least am gone in theory here in the thread!).

Outside Box · #10 03-16-2007, 03:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1) fold if it's the first time you've seen him act this way. 40% vpip means he's calling w/all sorts of junk and a 5 or 8 is v. likely.
2) baby donk bets and min 3-bets set off all sorts of alarms for me. with no reads or history, i'm probably gone ( or at least am gone in theory here in the thread!).

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this resumes my thinking much better