How to play this

[JJNJustin]

You are playing a full ring game. Somebody limps in late position, you are either in the big or small with something like J9 (s or u). You check. The flop comes something like
X98, where X is an overcard.

How do you play this? Do you bet out? Do you check to the limper? Do you c/r the flop? Do you just fold. The pot is very small, you have a pair, but no read on the limper.

-J

[Bob T.]

So its headsup, I have a pair, and noone showed any strength preflop?

The only reason I don't bet, is that I think trapping will be more effective against this opponent, but with a pair of nines, I think just winning the pot, and not seeing what the next card is has a lot of value.

[ralf_minsk]

And then when the LP player raises, which seems to happen a lot in the games I am playing, what do you do? 3-bet and fold to a cap? Call down unless more overs come on turn and river? Call and check/call unimproved on the turn?

/Ralf

[James.]

generally i bet. sure the pot's small, but our hand is often best and quite a few hands are making a pretty big mistake calling in a pot of this size. another thing is alot of favorite limping hands like pp's, 9T, JT, or QJ all have a reason(correctly or not)to call on that board.

[Bob T.]

[ QUOTE ]
And then when the LP player raises, which seems to happen a lot in the games I am playing, what do you do? 3-bet and fold to a cap? Call down unless more overs come on turn and river? Call and check/call unimproved on the turn?


[/ QUOTE ]

Then you have to play poker. You have to decide on a read, and then decide on the best course of action. I know the original poster said that he didn't have a read, but you always have some kinds of reads. You know how players usually play in the game your in. You know what your bet usually represents in the game your in. Actually, you know that you opponent open limped in late position.

Maybe that indicates that he is either passive, or tricky. If he's passive, you are probably beat, and if he is tricky, maybe he openlimped with a big pair, and you are drawing thin in what is still a small pot. In either case, you can probably say, 'just kidding', and fold without regret.

Maybe you really have no idea, where you're at, and probably the best move then is to call down, and start to figure out what your opponents tendencies are.

Maybe you know that he can't play a pot without taking a stab at it, and now, maybe you want to either threebet or checkraise the turn.

It might be hard, but when you don't know, you just have to make a guess, and sometimes you get it right, and sometimes you don't. Just remember what happened here, and use whatever information that you get to play in later situations.

[JJNJustin]

How do things change if the small blind is in there, or if a flush draw is on the flop? It is just a situation that I usually play like this:

check to the limper, he always bets, see what the small blind does, if he raises fold. If he just calls, call. If he folds, fold. If you get help on the turn c/r the limper. If not, c/f to a bet.

But I feel like I'm just spewing that flop bet since I'm calling on the basis that I'm going to give up. that's foolish.

I've tried leading out or c/r'ing the flop but then if limper has a pair of X's, he will call you down. If he makes 2pair on the turn he raises. If he senses uncertainty he may raise. I hate losing many BB in tiny pots with marginal hands. Most tight players do. This leads my strategy to ----> fold ---> give up ---> let him have it.

In the games I play in there are two different kind of lp limpers. These tight greedy old people who have AA and want you to make a pair and think it's good and trap you, and these morans who have J4s and want to play because it's fun. Problem with those folks is that sometimes they may make middle pair and have you in worse shape with a higher kicker than the old people who at least dont share your outs.

What I am trying to say is: folding seems too weak, staying automatically seems too risky.

-J

[JJNJustin]

thanks for the help, people, I take it you are too busy in your NSFW threads.

-J

[Bob T.]

Against the weak tight trappy guys, you just don't play. Whenever I play live, I usually end up labeling 2, 3, or 6 of the players as 'Don't pay this guy/gal off'.

On the other hand, you flop middle pair against the J4 guy, you just have to value bet, and hope that you are getting called by a worse hand. It isn't an exact science. Poker is a game of incomplete information, and you just have to do the best with what you do know. On this flop, you know that noone showed aggression, and you got some of the flop. You have to sort the rest out as the action progresses.

You seem worried about losing hands where you didn't have much invested, but if you play too passively here, you also lose to capture a big bet or two that are just laying in the pot.

[JJNJustin]

This came up once last night, I tried a particular strategy and it failed. I ended up betting some old turds hand.

I am now trying to think of a way to punish people who open limp with good hands near the button. Betting all the way doesnt work. You end up betting their hand for them or they fold. Note we are talking about middle pair no kicker here. Top pair would be different.

My next idea is to c/r on all streets. That should piss em off enough to stop open limping with AQ in late position.

-J

[Bob T.]

Well, you have to be able to distinguish between the old turds, and the old goofballs.

You also have to be able to distinguish about the results of one hand, and the results of your whole approach to play. There should be a lot of hands that you played well, but you just lost the hand. Similarly, just because you played a hand one way, and got a good result from it, you can't necessarily say that you played it well, or adopt that plan for all similar hands. In this thread, you seem to be nitpicking about the hands that you lose, like you should never make a bet in a hand where you eventually lose, it just doesn't happen that way.