i feel i should know what to do here

Heimdal · #1 03-14-2007, 09:37 AM

Another blind battle.

SB is clueless 53/19. I have position on him on two tables. Played 40-50 hands with him and I have raised his openlimp several times and won some medium-sized pots. This is the first time he has opened in sb.

I wanted to get it in on flop. I thought I could get him to 3-bet very light so I could get it in vs K6, T7, 88, QJ, flush draw etc (+50% equity for me). I wouldnt put much more in on turn or river if he called and I didnt improve so I didnt like making a real raise even though it would probably make him more inclined to 3-bet.

But if I shoved he would fold some of the hands I wanted him to continue with, and I wanted to play a big pot where I only put money in on later streets if I improved.

I don't think my flop raise has any FE, he is calling/raising with all hands he bet the flop with. So I can't really find a line I like with my pretty hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($14247.50)
Hero ($5000)
UTG ($5560)
MP ($25486.73)
Button ($4900)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $25.
3 folds, SB (poster) raises to $175, Hero calls $150.

Flop: ($400) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $350, Hero raises to $700, SB calls $350.

Turn: ($1800) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($1800) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $1650, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $3450

intensity · #2 03-14-2007, 09:43 AM

i think raising here to bloat the pot is perfectly fine.

Heimdal · #3 03-14-2007, 09:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i think raising here to bloat the pot is perfectly fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if i raise to 1300, there will be 3000 in the pot on turn with 3500 behind on turn. If I miss, do I bet? No not against this opponent. So I have to check. And then if I miss river I have put 1300 in instead of 700. And a smaller pot on turn gives him room to bluff when I hit. He can't do that with 3K in the pot (unless I check behind with a flush).

Gary Stevenson · #4 03-14-2007, 09:56 AM

hmm, interesting thoughts heim. i first looked at it and hated the min raise bc you're not getting enough $ in with a monster vs a retard. but against this type of player it might not be bad since you're obviously willing to get it in on the flop and the min raise might induce him to shove or 3bet it. plus it also let's you get a free river card usually and at the cheapest price possible(a majority of the time).

Gary Stevenson · #5 03-14-2007, 09:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think raising here to bloat the pot is perfectly fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if i raise to 1300, there will be 3000 in the pot on turn with 3500 behind on turn. If I miss, do I bet? No not against this opponent. So I have to check. And then if I miss river I have put 1300 in instead of 700. And a smaller pot on turn gives him room to bluff when I hit. He can't do that with 3K in the pot (unless I check behind with a flush).

[/ QUOTE ]
yea, against a guy who isn't folding much i think this line is pretty solid. it keeps him in check by freezing him up where he probably wont want to bet the turn because he's either scared you flopped a monster or he's waiting for you to bet again.

Goldstone · #6 03-14-2007, 10:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think raising here to bloat the pot is perfectly fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if i raise to 1300, there will be 3000 in the pot on turn with 3500 behind on turn. If I miss, do I bet? No not against this opponent. So I have to check. And then if I miss river I have put 1300 in instead of 700. And a smaller pot on turn gives him room to bluff when I hit. He can't do that with 3K in the pot (unless I check behind with a flush).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd make a proper raise then push any turn. I'd be surprised if you have no FE played that way considering you say he's folding most hands you want to gamble with if you just push the flop.

ArturiusX · #7 03-14-2007, 10:04 AM

I like the whole hand.

Gary Stevenson · #8 03-14-2007, 10:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think raising here to bloat the pot is perfectly fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

But if i raise to 1300, there will be 3000 in the pot on turn with 3500 behind on turn. If I miss, do I bet? No not against this opponent. So I have to check. And then if I miss river I have put 1300 in instead of 700. And a smaller pot on turn gives him room to bluff when I hit. He can't do that with 3K in the pot (unless I check behind with a flush).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd make a proper raise then push any turn. I'd be surprised if you have no FE played that way considering you say he's folding most hands you want to gamble with if you just push the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
the thing is, if we make a "proper" raise on the flop and he does call us, i dont think we have as much FE as you think. OP didn't say the guy was going to call the raise with ATC if he had made it ~1.3k, he said he's not folding ATC to the min raise. which means that sb would be calling our shove a lot more often with the hands he gets to the turn with in the raise to 1.3k situation