Etiquette in a B&M casino

[RR]

So as to not hijack the thread about the clock I pulled this out.
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To be quite honest, too much time is wasted playing B&M with staredowns. If you had a minute to decide, I dont see why needing one more minute would be quite enough time. Before going to b&m, the most time for a decision with stars with the additional 40 second clock. tilt and party gave no extra time and they spread 5K games. So bottom line, I dont see anything wrong with calling a clock after 60 seconds.

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This line of thinking causes a lot of problems these days. This is an online player. Takes how they do things online and decides they should apply to B&M. B&M cardrooms existed long before the internet and have their own established customs. To suggest they should change to be like online is at the root of a lot of problems the older players ahve with the younger players.

[spacemanspiff]

That being said, I tend to believe that his point about staredowns is valid. If you need some time to ponder putting a big chunk of your buy-in into the pot, that's fine. But staring a guy down over a $20 raise, which I've seen time and again, is just ridiculous. Frankly, it's a big reason I dislike NL poker.

[DGenR8]

IMHO, no more than about 15% of protracted pauses are actually related to a difficult decision. Most of the time, it's an out of line move that gets picked off, and the mover is trying to save face by making it look like a tough decision.

It drives me freakin' crazy. There's no shame in making a move and insta-folding when you get played back at. Done with the correct frequency, it helps your image. For the LAG, nobody beleives the "Hollywood Minute" anyway.

[Dennisa]

[ QUOTE ]
So as to not hijack the thread about the clock I pulled this out.
[ QUOTE ]
To be quite honest, too much time is wasted playing B&M with staredowns. If you had a minute to decide, I dont see why needing one more minute would be quite enough time. Before going to b&m, the most time for a decision with stars with the additional 40 second clock. tilt and party gave no extra time and they spread 5K games. So bottom line, I dont see anything wrong with calling a clock after 60 seconds.

[/ QUOTE ]

This line of thinking causes a lot of problems these days. This is an online player. Takes how they do things online and decides they should apply to B&M. B&M cardrooms existed long before the internet and have their own established customs. To suggest they should change to be like online is at the root of a lot of problems the older players ahve with the younger players.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many times do you really think a player needs more than 60 seconds to make a decision? After having a night to sleep on this I stand by my thinking. Does the older play tip a buck per minute for staredowns, especially if they fold? I actually feel worse for the dealer in the box during these 5 minute ordeals. FWIW, I do not deal, I play in the LA limited buy in games, so stack sizes relative to blinds are far smaller, so this does taint my viewpoint, but I see these 2-3 minute staredowns for 60BB pots in NL and just go insane.

[AquaSwing]

[ QUOTE ]
That being said, I tend to believe that his point about staredowns is valid. If you need some time to ponder putting a big chunk of your buy-in into the pot, that's fine. But staring a guy down over a $20 raise, which I've seen time and again, is just ridiculous. Frankly, it's a big reason I dislike NL poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I am on the receiving end of a 60 second staredown I usually lean forward and stare back or I make a goofy face or sometimes I cover my face with my hands. That usually gets things moving and prevents future delays.

[phillydilly]

Well, in general I agree, but I guess I'll throw a counter point out there.

suppose I'm an internet player who plays NL25-NL50-NL100 or Limit. If you are playing live NL200, you can double or triple up pretty quick. Suddenly, you are put to a decision for a few hundo that is a lot more money than most the deicions you have to make. Here a understand even 2 or 3 minutes.

But yes, the posturing is rediculous.

[Jive Dadson]

Most players who do the stare down are trying to look cool, like on TV. Let them have their fun.

[spacemanspiff]

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Most players who do the stare down are trying to look cool, like on TV. Let them have their fun.

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Interestingly enough I usually think I'm in the minority of those that read/post here in that I play poker primarily for fun. Of course I prefer winning to losing but I'm not trying to make a living at it. So when somebody throws the game out of whack by doing stuff like the 3 minute staredowns or berating other players it kind of sucks (harshes my mellow if you will).

[RR]

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How many times do you really think a player needs more than 60 seconds to make a decision?

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Well I started this thread to have a discussion that was seperate from taking too long to act. This same line of thinking applies to many things in a B&M (lists, blinds, number of players at the table etc). It is unreasonable for the online player to expect the B&M cardrooms to change how they do things to make the game like what he is used to online.

[AngusThermopyle]

I see two issues:

1. "Gee, they don't do this way online". It's not online. If you want it done the way they do it online, go home to your Dell. They are not going to spread 6-max PLO for you at the Bellagio. They don't have hand histories at the Horseshoe. They are not going to have a 20-second time limit for NL at the Bike.

2. NL in B&M is relatively new. There seems to be 101 variations on rules and procedures and 'cardroom etiquette'. And 10001 variations on how Internet and TV and B&M educated players think it "should be done", from string raises, to verbal declarations, to calling for the clock.