Best steal position?

[TheGrifter]

Late in tournaments when the average stack is < 10xBB and antes come into play, leaving players dynamics out of the equation, what is the best position to steal from?

I strongly prefer cut-off+1, interested in others thoughts.

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
Late in tournaments when the average stack is < 10xBB and antes come into play, leaving players dynamics out of the equation, what is the best position to steal from?

I strongly prefer cut-off+1, interested in others thoughts.

[/ QUOTE ]

By CO+1 I assume you are talking about the Hi-jack seat. Wonder how it got that name?

I don't really care so much about the seat as about the players to act behind me, espeicially those in the blinds.

BTW - With less than 10BBs. I am probably open-shoving or Stop 'n going from the blinds. I guess I don't really consider those stealing.

[Bakes]

the best steal position is clearly UTG


edit: didn't see the 10BBs thing

the answer is button, i think, because having less players and less hands behind is more profitable than the actual hand you hold imo, even if button shoves are dogish every time

[TheGrifter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Late in tournaments when the average stack is < 10xBB and antes come into play, leaving players dynamics out of the equation, what is the best position to steal from?

I strongly prefer cut-off+1, interested in others thoughts.

[/ QUOTE ]

By CO+1 I assume you are talking about the Hi-jack seat. Wonder how it got that name?

I don't really care so much about the seat as about the players to act behind me, espeicially those in the blinds.

BTW - With less than 10BBs. I am probably open-shoving or Stop 'n going from the blinds. I guess I don't really consider those stealing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was referring to all-in blind steals...funny how I was always confused about the term "hijack", I thought it was interchangeable with cutoff.

I'm saying regardless of players, assume for the purpose of this discussion that the entire table plays the same.

I think real arguments can be made for blinds/button or even the cutoff.

There is a lot of good discussion to be had on this topic.

[Cablelessray]

bakes

even the worst players know you should steal from the button. (which means they will call you more)

you can steal with the same obsurd range from the cutoff or CO+1 and have them call you with a smaller range. (yah, it's crazy)

my vote is on a tighter table, CO+1, otherwise CO

[Sherman]

Hmmm...okay, here is an opportunity for me to unleash an idea I have been using and thinking about.

Say we are shorthanded on the bubble. Most stacks are short like you propose. It folds to me w/xx in the SB. I am fairly sure that if I push, I will pick up the BB. However, instead I fold.

On the next hand, it folds to me on the button w/xx. Now I push. I feel like now I have even more FE. Why? Because I just folded my SB. I think most players think anyone who open folds in the SB must be tight. This play set up a tight image for my next play - steal the SB and BB. Overall, I think I gain here because I have picked up the same amount of chips without looking overly aggressive.

The only problem with this play IMO is that you can't count on it folding to you on the button immediately after you fold your SB. However, I still think folding the SB sets up a great image for future steals.

So...to get to your revised question. I like the button.

[TheGrifter]

The question to me is obvious...does the increased likelihood that each player will fold as you raise in earlier and earlier position outweigh the possiblity that you will run into a calling hand.

Looking at the two extremes it is obvious that pushing the SB is better than pushing UTG. Even though the BB will call with a much wider range than the rest of the table will when you're UTG, you are much more likely to be called when pushing UTG...

[Sherman]

[ QUOTE ]
The question to me is obvious...does the increased likelihood that each player will fold as you raise in earlier and earlier position outweigh the possiblity that you will run into a calling hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, why didn't you say so?

Anyhow, if this is the case, you could easily run some simulations with SNG Power Tools. Change your position and the calling ranges of the players behind you. Tighten them up as you move away from the button and loosen them as you move closer to the SB.

Somehow, unless the SB and BB's calling ranges are pretty loose, I feel like the button is best.

Anyhow, I think if someone really put a decent amount of time and effort into this analysis, this would be an excellent 2+2 Magazine article.

[Cablelessray]

i'll elaborate then:

cutoff and cutoff+1 are my "favorite" for many reasons;

-it doesn't get folded to you on the button very often.
-on the button people KNOW you have range xx.
-idiots (most players) in the blinds will be scared to be embarrassed to call away with a mediocre hand to someone not from the button, even if they know you have range xx in the CO.

the majority of poker players clearly care about more than just winning.

[Cornell Fiji]

The best time to steal is anytime that it is folded to you preflop.

That said, the hijack is a very nice spot to steal from at a 9/10 handed table.