J8o, tried to steal then got there.

[Hass]

20/40 CAZ(kill pot, half kill). Tighter game than usual, but most players are still bad. T

Button is one of the most annoying players at CAZ. He berates dealers constantly when he looses and complains constantly about how bad he runs. Basically your average donkey than never shuts up, and he is on mad monkey tilt at the moment.

sb is one of the tightest players on the table
bb/kill is decent post flop but open limps way too much.

folds to hero in CO, hero raises J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Button cold calls, sb folds, bb/kill calls.

flop K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

bb/kill checks, hero bets, Button raises, bb folds, hero calls. BTW at this point I still think my J is the [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (oops)

turn blank, check, check.

river A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

hero checks, button bets, hero calls.

I looked at my cards after the turn checked through and saw the 8 was the [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and not the J.

Comments on all streets

[CardSharpCook]

um.... ok. What the question? Oh yeah, always check your cards a second time before you see the flop. Mentally say to yourself "jack of diamonds, 8 of hearts. Jack of Diamonds, 8 of hearts." I do this every time. If you ever catch me checking my hole cards after the flop, it is going to be acting 67% of the time.

[bakku]

you have a tilting button and BB who open limps way too much, you need to fold PF

[7ontheline]

Why would you try to steal this pot against these players? J8o is obviously a weak hand. BB is absolutely going to defend his kill blind, and if button is on tilt he's likely to come in also. Then you've got J8o in a 3-way pot - even against random hands you're no favorite, and tilty button isn't going to fold so you won't be able to buy the pot.

[CardSharpCook]

You take down the pot some percentage of the time. Another larger %age you are HU vs. a passive player and you have position and a average starting hand. A minority %age you are in a 3way pot against two players who's hands will be difficult to read and who probably won't fold any pair or any reasonable draw. These will be the situations that suck. I wonder, this situation arises (3way with button) what your expected earn is. Obviously it will depend on your actions on various flops. What flops do you check fold? Do you fire on any broadway flop? How precisely can you extract value from their second best hands? How easily can you get away when behind?

The difficult part of the equation is that the first two scenarios play easily, but win very small pots (steal the blinds, or play in position vs. a passive player). The third scenario will often involve spending 1BB on the flop alone, not to mention difficult 4th and 5th street 1BB decisions. It is very difficult to determine the net EV of raising J8o here.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you try to steal this pot against these players? J8o is obviously a weak hand. BB is absolutely going to defend his kill blind, and if button is on tilt he's likely to come in also. Then you've got J8o in a 3-way pot - even against random hands you're no favorite, and tilty button isn't going to fold so you won't be able to buy the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Hass]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, always check your cards a second time before you see the flop. Mentally say to yourself "jack of diamonds, 8 of hearts. Jack of Diamonds, 8 of hearts." I do this every time. If you ever catch me checking my hole cards after the flop, it is going to be acting 67% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do this, just one of those rare hands where I got in a hurry and forgot.

[Hass]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why would you try to steal this pot against these players? J8o is obviously a weak hand. BB is absolutely going to defend his kill blind, and if button is on tilt he's likely to come in also. Then you've got J8o in a 3-way pot - even against random hands you're no favorite, and tilty button isn't going to fold so you won't be able to buy the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I have been stealing from these players for hours. And they tighten up even more in a kill pot. In my book this is a standard steal situation....no?

[HOWMANY]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why would you try to steal this pot against these players? J8o is obviously a weak hand. BB is absolutely going to defend his kill blind, and if button is on tilt he's likely to come in also. Then you've got J8o in a 3-way pot - even against random hands you're no favorite, and tilty button isn't going to fold so you won't be able to buy the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I have been stealing from these players for hours. And they tighten up even more in a kill pot. In my book this is a standard steal situation....no?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't feel like playing J8o when an extremely likely scenario is getting it HU OOP against a tilting berserker that is going to make it hard for me to play well.

I only play J8o here if the button and one of the blinds are fairly tight.

[rafiki]

Ya I was going to ask if I'm playing -EV folding my J8o there. If someone can explain to me why I should be stealing with J8o, I'm all ears for sure. I'd be curious to know what worse hands you may steal with, and why.