gettin' crazy with bottom pair

[martybonus]

Another bodog-tastic session.

Had a NC-worthy hand where we ended up having 4 caps PF then everyone checked the flop with QXX which appened to make my set. was pretty funny. but that's another story.

This was more dicey. Would love comments.

table is full of loose-passives. seeing alot of cold-calling, 4-5 way flops, out of tempo plays, etc. Bodog + night time GMT = money. No real reads on villains to set them apart. no one obviously competant is in the hand.

but you know what they say when you can't spot the fish...

bodog fiddycent
10 pizzles for sheeze! (dr cox would hate me)

hero is CO with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

2 folds, MP calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, hero calls, button folds, SB calls, BB checks.

FLOP (5SB)
5 players
A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, <font color="red">MP2 bets, hero raises </font>, 3 folds, MP2 calls.

<font color="blue"> How do we feel about this raise? I know i'm not knocking anyone off a good hand, but I might just be able to knock someone off OCs or 8X if I put on some extra aggression? I was more or less trying to represent the ace.

Is this total spew as sorta bluff thing?</font>

TURN (4.5BB)
Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
MP2 checks, <font color="red"> hero bets </font>...

<font color="blue"> Obviously if the flop sorta bluff is spew than this merely compounds the sin. So bring on the pain if so.


I rarely ever try a bluff, but clearly it's an important skill, best to learn how NOT to do it as quickly as possible [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

thanks!

[Todd]

Dude, when you have 56s on a flop of A85, you dont have middle pair (MP). edit. OK now I look like an idiot!! Thanks for editing your post.

IF this works, and MP2 will fold here, then great, write it down, and attack him with any two cards. When you do this in the real world, MP2 holding A3 or A7 will call to the river cuz he has top pair, and you will be spewing.

Aggression is good, we all agree on that. THis type of aggression (for me) is nutso, unless you know how this guy plays.

Todd

[martybonus]

yep, changed the post. my bad.

thanks for advice, i think you're right, this was too aggressive. very infrequent that a bluff works against these villains.

he must have been on KX or something. who knows.

only way to learn proper aggression is to make mistakes on either end i suppose. sounds like this was on the over-aggro side.

[neeeel]

the chances of 5 ppl seeing the flop and 1 of them having an Ace is probably quite high. the raise did get you heads up, and you have backdoor draws, so its probably not bad, better than just calling down i would say. Seeing as you raised the flop it seems logical to bet the turn, you can then check thro the river UI, or fold to a raise.

I guess you got to pick your spots for this sort of play, and im not sure if i would have done it here, im guessing you got called down and lost to a pair

[tyler_cracker]

LPs are not the opponents you want to bluff against. 5-way pots are not a good time to bluff. A-high flops are not good to bluff at when playing a bunch of passive limpers.

[martybonus]

thanks all. all the tips makes really godo sense. sounds liek this was the inappropriate time to try to get cute. if one of the factors was different, it might have been better. like if it was HU and a T high board...

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
table is full of loose-passives.

[/ QUOTE ]

Will a loose passive donk this flop without at least a pair? Do loose-passives know enough to fold middle pair? I don't think so, but I don't play at Bodog. If you don't expect a check-raise very often you can make a loose call here. But I would really prefer to be closer to closing the action, though.

[headofmike]

I would have just folded the flop. You don't even have odds to call. And with so many loose passives in the hand there is almost no chance you'll win the pot right there. If MP2 calls the turn he probably has an ace. What happened on the river here? And after looking at the hand again I realize the pot is small, so why bother?

[martybonus]

he did fold in the end, but i wont be trying anything like this again for the forseeable future.

i think i was superman-tilting after taking down a 16BB pot with a flopped set after 4 caps PF...all but one villain folded the flop to my raise, then my set turned into a boat on the turn.

[Big Folder]

counting your outs, i say you have about 7 outs. 5 for two pair or better, .5 for perfect BDSD, 1.5 for BDFD.

That said, the pot is small and I doubt you are getting a better hand to fold here. If you want to see the turn, you should just call because you likely won't have the odds to continue on anyways if your Backdoor draws don't materialize. raising here is a spew.