SB play

[matv]

Hey guys,

This post was originally in Poker Theory. It's a bit of a ghost town over there, so I've decided to post it here as well.

Also the people involved in this argument were NL50-NL200 players, so it probably should be here anyways [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

A number of people I know that play poker regularly were having an argument today. This argument was concerning SB strategy when folded around to.

The argument made by one of the players was that he would play every hand that is folded around to him on the SB. He believes he would raise approximately 50% of the time, and call 50% of the time.

He believed this to be correct because he is getting 3-1 on the call; and you are rarely that far behind with any holding. He said he would only fold the SB if he had limped or raised a number of hands in this situation, and the BB had raised/reraised him a high percentage of the time.

The rest of us disagreed. Our argument was that you are out of position, and you are getting yourself into horrible situations with hands such as 23o, 38o, etc. Making this strategy -EV

Assuming 100BBs for both opponents. Is it +EV to use this kind of strategy in the SB?

[KeanuReaver]

reverse implied odds come into play quite a bit here
especially if the bb is fairly competent.

[Avicenna]

Hey I don't believe that I have enough background to discuss theory questions deeply, but I may help to get the discussion started [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

This SSNL forum is mainly about short-handed play, and I don't believe that there is much optimal play to discuss for 6max. Reading people is the key and exploitive strategy is best.

That is, I'd raise first in from SB most times if BB is tight.
If BB is loose, I'd raise with better cards than on BTN.
Limping is bad short-handed, but I may do it if the pattern limp-bet is more effective than raise-bet. This is player dependent.

[matv]

KeanuReaver;

That is my exact thinking, large reverse implied odds.

Note, the person that suggested this play considered it his standard play, until convinced otherwise.

Avicenna;

I don't think that 6-max or full-ring really makes a difference. Seems like the same position to me if you're folded around to.

I totally agree with your third paragraph.

[RiDiK]

good posts so far

the biggest thing to stress is that it's completely dependent on the sb and bb. there are players out there that i would be very confident i was +ev playing 100% of my hands in this situation (i would probably opt to just raise all of them) and others that would probably tear me apart.

it would be much easier to be +ev against a bad nit, but i think a lot of ppl could show a profit against the loose players as well. tbh, i think a lot of ppl could show a profit against a lot of competent opponents as well. it's not like this situation comes up a lot to the point that it would be easy to figure out that sb is raising so loose. depending on variance and opponent it may be never.

[eigenvalue]

So far I play NL $50 only (but with $100 stacks). I play every hand from the SB if it is limped or folded to me. I always trust the math. I don't have stats on my SB play, because I don't use PT, but I doubt that I loose money in these situations in the long run, simply because of the maths, maybe because of soft competition, too.
I can remember so many situations when I was able to stack soft competitors from the SB that where not able to put me on a hand or thought that I could play only strong hands from the SB when I hit a board hard.
No, I'm sure I win money playing any hand from the SB in non raised pots. As other posters have statet, whether to raise or just to complete is player dependend. I'm sure, too, that anyone who looses money from the SB in these special situations simply plays poor. Maybe he cannot handle some tough spots and bets when he shoud check or he doesn't recognize RIO situations and looses to much money in the later betting rounds when OOP.

[matv]

thought this would attract more interest.. bump [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]