Kings - Managing pot size

seano34 · #1 03-09-2007, 05:02 AM

OK - I had been sat at the table for about for about 60 hands. I was having a shocking session. I had had about 3 playable hands up to this point all of which had been cracked by calling stations. Frankly I was tilting a bit - not just because of the game - other stuff as well.

Both villains were total calling stations -

MP1 - 25%/1%/0.82AF
MP2 - 50%/4%/0.36AF

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Standard

Flop: (8.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

I figure Q10/Q9/J10/J9/A9 is going to look good here for these guys and any 8 would re-raise me

Turn: (7.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Still think Im ahead here

River: (13.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

OK not what I wanted to see on the river, but I figured a call down was necessary though - I reckon this is two pair at least 10% of the time

Final Pot: 16.25 BB

My question is did I play this too aggressively and make the pot large enough for drawing hands to keep calling?

Is there any way I could have managed this differently.

The donk was not particularly concerning as one of the things I had observed on the table were that 2/3 of the players were absolute rubbish and were donking pf raisers with bottom pair and 2nd pair etc and they would re-raise if they had anything decent.

fretelöo · #2 03-09-2007, 05:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My question is did I play this too aggressively and make the pot large enough for drawing hands to keep calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that really matters. If they want to draw to their gs or whatnot, they're doing it anyway. You definitely have to call the river - the only thing I'm not entirely sure of is the turn-raise. I could easily see someone donk/3bet trips here though that would be a seriously crappy line.

seano34 · #3 03-09-2007, 05:25 AM

On the turn raise - just dd a quick 'stove and based on a likely range I thought they might bet in to me on the flop with I had a huge equity edge on the flop and then my equity drops to approx 1/3 on the turn.

So maybe a call would have been better.

fretelöo · #4 03-09-2007, 05:42 AM

Really? Could you post that 'stove?

tyler_cracker · #5 03-09-2007, 05:47 AM

i don't raise the turn. i don't overcall the river.

seano34 · #6 03-09-2007, 05:50 AM

edit - hold on

seano34 · #7 03-09-2007, 05:56 AM

EDIT** -Hmm re run it and I have a slightly different result. I just changed the range to reflect the fact they would have three-bet 88/99/89, and the weaker hands drop out of their range

Board: 9h 8s 8c Jd
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.038% 30.04% 00.00% 14382 0.00 { KdKs }
Hand 1: 34.981% 26.88% 08.10% 12870 3879.00 { QTs, J9s+, T9s, QTo, J9o+ }
Hand 2: 34.981% 26.88% 08.10% 12870 3879.00 { QTs, J9s+, T9s, QTo, J9o+ }

seano34 · #8 03-09-2007, 06:04 AM

If you run a stove where the only hand they might have I beat is J9 you are actually right Tyler - assuming they are going to continue betting in to me with a much narrower range

Board: 9h 8s 8c Jd 7c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 03.158% 03.16% 00.00% 36 0.00 { KdKs }
Hand 1: 48.421% 36.32% 12.11% 414 138.00 { QTs, J9s+, T9s, QTo, J9o+ }
Hand 2: 48.421% 36.32% 12.11% 414 138.00 { QTs, J9s+, T9s, QTo, J9o+ }

Hoskinator · #9 03-09-2007, 06:13 AM

when the board has some potential draws or a potential 3 of a kind then you could consider slowing down. Raising isn't going to knock these guys out so you have to think about that.

I had a similar case where I thought I was bit and there were two guys who kept on raising. In these situation when I think I still have a good hand but it might be beat (usually on a flush board) then I will check it and make sure there is one bet per round.

Poker is a gamble and when someone is drawing to a straight. then the odds are in your favour so betting is okay. The chances of someone hitting a straight when there are two people on board are different and the odds of a straight hitting are going up. Also on this board the likelyhood of someone hitting two pair is pretty good with all the connected cards on the board.

I don't think you played it too bad, except I probably wouldn't have raised on the turn.

seano34 · #10 03-09-2007, 06:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
when the board has some potential draws or a potential 3 of a kind then you could consider slowing down. Raising isn't going to knock these guys out so you have to think about that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasnt trying to knock them out I was raising for value. I didnt fear an 8 due to there being no 3-bet. As I mentioned donking was a standard play on this board for most players

[ QUOTE ]
Also on this board the likelyhood of someone hitting two pair is pretty good with all the connected cards on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was hoping someone had two pair ie. J9 or a small pocket pair