not a PLO player, but play as one in a mixed game....advice

[ATauO1]

I started playing in a mixed $1-3 (10hand each) PLHE/PLO full ring game. In the Hold'em round its real Loose/Aggressive with normal raises 5-10X the big blind with 4-5 callers seeing the flop... lots of big stackes just keep firing away trying to take the pot with aggression/ and loose passives trying to flop 2 pair or better. (its a great game, I do good) BUT... these players play the Omaha round exactly the same way but way looser/ and more aggressive.. lots of re-raises pre flop action.

There are these Big stack PLO players that come to this game just for the PLO so they dominate it with raises, rarely fold preflop, and just kill the Hold em players) I read Ciaffone's book and the chapter in SS2 and know the basics on starting hands and reading the board in PLO. (I know how not to get trapped with second nuts/ drawing to a loser etc.) When we get to the PLO round I tighten up considerable and wait for good starting hands Ciaffone pointed out, since I'm new to the game. I HATE THIS, I rarely get a "good" starting hand so I usually see the flop maybe 3-5 times an hour (every pot is raised so no Big blind special) and rarely flop anything worth playing for the raises that keep coming my way... I really want to get in there and mix it up due to the amount of money going everywhere (someone always busts and rebuys during the PLO rounds). But these PLO players they really get in there and play it- they push huge raises and win with a small T high flush against some donks 2 pair/trips... and they never really lose a big hand either... They just have a feel for the game, they know when they're ahead and when they're not... but still they aren't winning with the absolute nuts and their hands IMO can and are losers...

My question is: I'm I playing to tight against this type of game? I am willing to call raises and reraises with all the Text book PLO hands except maybe small run downs and small pairs/with connectors. And when I'm in the flop I'm not passive if I catch a good safe piece I play it (play the draw)... but flops that actually connect to me---- very few and far between, so with no chance of making any sort of hand I let it go
SO like in Hold EM and the textbook "STARTING HAND REQUIREMENTS" do I loosen up against really loose aggressive players? I don't have the playing experience that you guys have when it comes to PLO so I ask you...Is tight right in this game?

[ATauO1]

Really- maybe I just was on a dry streak in the PLO, not catching any cards, nothing really working. But I just don't want to be playing to tight...or passive. Whats the normal % of flops a good players see, whether they are tight or loose? Thanks

[Silent A]

The first question I'd ask is how many hands of PLO have you played with these guys (roughly, total --- estimate the hands/hour and # of hours played if you must). Long spells where you go nowhere, seemingly missing every flop, are common in Omaha.

That said, if you've played several humdred hands and think you're seeing less than 15% of the flops, you're too tight.

General guide: tighten up like hell in EP and play 30 to 35% in LP. As you get more confortable, loosen up in LP a little more (but not so much in EP). Also, try playing with either a really deep or fairly shallow stack.

[fnord_too]

If these guys routinely fire multiple barrells post flop, you should be waiting for position more than hands. I don't recall all the starting hand suggestions from books, but a few an hours seems way too tight. I would say 3-4 an orbit is probably more correct in a full ring game. Some big questions:
How many raises are going in pre flop?
How deep are stacks?
How many people are going to the flop?
How many hands are going to showdown?
What types of hands are getting shown down?

You should at least be stealing some post flop when you see a flop if you are playing weak tight. In position, you should probably be playing a lot of your suited aces if these guys will push draws hard.

Just for reference:
pokenum -o 8c th jh ks - ad 4d js 7h -- 7d 9c qd
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 9c Qd 7d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks 8c Jh Th 259 31.59 561 68.41 0 0.00 0.316
Js Ad 4d 7h 561 68.41 259 31.59 0 0.00 0.684

Give villain a pair here and we still have:
pokenum -o 8c th jh qs - ad 4d js 7h -- 7d 9c qd
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 9c Qd 7d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qs 8c Jh Th 388 47.32 432 52.68 0 0.00 0.473
Js Ad 4d 7h 432 52.68 388 47.32 0 0.00 0.527

Add in a big flush draw (still with a pair) and we have:
pokenum -o 8d th qh kd - ad 4d js 7h -- 7d 9c qd
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 9c Qd 7d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Kd 8d Qh Th 397 48.41 423 51.59 0 0.00 0.484
Js Ad 4d 7h 423 51.59 397 48.41 0 0.00 0.516

Point is, if these people are willing to go to war with big draws (and big draws are more likely than sets, usually) you can play back pretty hard. In fact, if you play back hard on this sort of board with this sort of hand, they are more likely to fold a hand which has you in bad shape (like bottom set, 2p no real draw) than a hand you have in bad shape until they catch on that you have a clue, which could be a while (especially if they think you are just tilting or something, stupid HE player pushing his naked flush draw like it is the nuts [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

You should be really willing to play any reasonable hand on the button with deep stacks here. Being OOP in omaha sucks way more than being oop in HE.

Now if these players are laggy from position but not so from oop, well, good luck to ya, they probably are not going to be fun to play with.

Also, be ready for some hella varraince.