A couple etiquette questions

[DrMega]

Two separate issues:

1) 5-10 PL it’s limped around to me in the BB and I have typical BB crap (45o). I check, the flop comes KKQ, SB checks to me and I muck my cards. A guy not in the hand lectures me after it’s over about how in a pot-limit game it’s very bad form to do that. I apologize and tell him I see his point, and he continues to lecture me and talk to other players about what a terrible move it was. I agree I was in the wrong, but felony or misdemenor?

2) It’s VERY common in this game (it happens more than not) that when two players are all-in before the river that no one exposes their cards until they’ve made (or until the other player exposes, in kind of a cowboy showdown manner). Generally speaking it doesn’t matter who put whom all in. I think it’s legal, but is it good etiquette to keep your hole cards down like that? I had a heart-wrenching beat in this situation where I’d put another player all in on the turn with a set and he declined to show until he made his flush on the river. Might seem nitty but it really stung thinking I had the best hand and not knowing what I was sweating (I had a notion, but wasn’t sure when the diamond hit). I also feel I’m missing out on information I may be entitled to (what will Player X call or raise all in?).

A secondary issue to this is I’ve inadvertently slow-rolled people in these situations when I don’t have the nuts but I’m pretty sure I am good. If they did the betting or were first to act, I typically hold my cards (because they do). Is this also rude?

Thanks in advance for helping this B&M neophyte.

[Andy B]

Folding to no bet is very poor form. You're giving players information to which they are not entitled. Just don't do it.

I don't play big bet, at least not locally, but when I or another player are all-in, I turn my cards up at least 90% of the time. This is a courtesy to the other guy, and it also helps move the game along.

[lmcjaho]

[ QUOTE ]
Folding to no bet is very poor form. You're giving players information to which they are not entitled. Just don't do it.

I don't play big bet, at least not locally, but when I or another player are all-in, I turn my cards up at least 90% of the time. This is a courtesy to the other guy, and it also helps move the game along.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it amusing that in one sentence you are against something that helps speed up the game (folding to no bets when you have no intention of calling anything if it were to come after your check) and then in the next sentence you advocate showing down 90% of the time in an All-in situation to help move the game along...

OP - technically the above response is correct, but MOST players in my experience don't really care if you fold instead of checking...

[DrMega]

I can see the plusses and minuses of it, but I'll concede that it was bad etiquette on my part to muck my cards, though my local casino has no ruling against it (apparently the Milwaukee casino has established a rule against and players/dealers go ape when it happens).

Mostly I felt the other player overreacted a little unfairly and also tarnished my image in an instance I felt was relatively benign, especially after I apologized. When he continued I tried to joke it off (my table image is generally the fun-loving longhair fat guy) by saying "Okay, okay. I just learned this game today," and he replied "Go sell that bullsh*t somewhere else, don't muck your cards!" Not only was my image hurt, but I was genuinely alarmed that someone would take it so hard after I admitted being in the wrong.

The same fellow called a clock on me the very first hand I played in this PL game when it started four weeks ago (I c'bet my overpair and got check-min raised on a scary board, so I had some thinkin' to do with a short stack), so suffice it to say I don't think he likes me.

[MrFizzbin]

[ QUOTE ]


I find it amusing that in one sentence you are against something that helps speed up the game (folding to no bets when you have no intention of calling anything if it were to come after your check)

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason this is bad to do in NL and pot limit is because it gives players after you an unfair advantage. If I'm raising or betting out structuring my bet to 'n' people is different than structuring it to 'n-1' people. Some player may play a had differently if you are in a pot than if you are not in a pot. So it's fairly serious,

[lmcjaho]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I find it amusing that in one sentence you are against something that helps speed up the game (folding to no bets when you have no intention of calling anything if it were to come after your check)

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason this is bad to do in NL and pot limit is because it gives players after you an unfair advantage. If I'm raising or betting out structuring my bet to 'n' people is different than structuring it to 'n-1' people. Some player may play a had differently if you are in a pot than if you are not in a pot. So it's fairly serious,

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand your logic, but in my experience 90% of players don't really give a s**t as it doesn't make enough of a difference in most cases to make a big deal out of. Obviously if it's 3-handed and the second guy folds it might make a difference if the third guy tries to make a steal, but by the same token it might help the first-to-act if he was checking to set up a check-raise or similar trap and the premature fold just sweetens the bait for his opponent, so it all evens out it in the grand scheme of things.

DrMega - the guy in question sounds like an asshat - I recommend you sit on his left whenever possible and fold to no action as much as possible - since you've already stated there is no rule against it in the room in question it sounds like a relatively harmless way to wind him up and maybe get him making bad plays at you...

[Little Wing]

2) Where I play, the dealer will not proceed in this situation until all hands are face up on the table

[ungarop]

[ QUOTE ]
2) Where I play, the dealer will not proceed in this situation until all hands are face up on the table

[/ QUOTE ]

For cash games? Is this a room in NV or CA?

[Kevroc]

Its good to show the all-in hands with cards to come, in case someone wants to "do business".

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand your logic, but in my experience 90% of players don't really give a s**t as it doesn't make enough of a difference in most cases to make a big deal out of.

[/ QUOTE ]

If 90% of people don't care, that means that 10% do.

However, 100% of people don't care when you check and wait for a bet to fold.

-McGee