PLO8 Noob questions and general advice (LC)

[4_2_it]

First, an introduction. I mod and play most SSNL. As part of a forum exchange day Felicia and I agreed to post in each other's forums. Now I do play O8 and Omaha Hi in my weekly home so I am interested in learning more about the games.

I would like this thread to be interactive and I will ask follow-up questions as necessary.

Now to get started. I have a few what I am sure are basic questions, but hopefully some kind souls here will help enlighten me.

<ul type="square">[*] I recognize that a monster starting hand is something like AAK2 or AA23 double suited. However, is it worth seeing a flop with a hand like KKQJ double suited? What is the cut-off for high card only hands or should I just be dumping them? Assume that I play in a donk fest home game where it's 6 to the flop and everyone chases everything.
[*] I seem to be constantly missing value calls on the turn when the river is a high card and my TP hand would have swept. When the board does not have a low and you hold TP, what kind of pot odds do you need to call a bet (sorry if this is basic, but I warned you I was a noob)? I just don't have a 'feel' for how strong hands like TP or mid 2-pair are in a 3 handed pot.
[*] When it gets the river 3 handed and I hold the nut low and I suspect there is a strong chance that one other villain also holds it, is the best strategy just to call bets on the river to avoid quartering or should I be aggressive and just recognize quartering as part of the price of admission?[/list]
I look forward to your replies and I am sure I will have more questions as time goes by.

[Drizztdj]

[ QUOTE ]
First, an introduction. I mod and play most SSNL. As part of a forum exchange day Felicia and I agreed to post in each other's forums. Now I do play O8 and Omaha Hi in my weekly home so I am interested in learning more about the games.

I would like this thread to be interactive and I will ask follow-up questions as necessary.

Now to get started. I have a few what I am sure are basic questions, but hopefully some kind souls here will help enlighten me.

<ul type="square">[*] I recognize that a monster starting hand is something like AAK2 or AA23 double suited. However, is it worth seeing a flop with a hand like KKQJ double suited? What is the cut-off for high card only hands or should I just be dumping them? Assume that I play in a donk fest home game where it's 6 to the flop and everyone chases everything.

Four broadway cards and I'll see a flop every time if its relatively cheap and at least one sOOted
[*] I seem to be constantly missing value calls on the turn when the river is a high card and my TP hand would have swept. When the board does not have a low and you hold TP, what kind of pot odds do you need to call a bet (sorry if this is basic, but I warned you I was a noob)? I just don't have a 'feel' for how strong hands like TP or mid 2-pair are in a 3 handed pot.

Pot limit or Limit? Its a big difference.
[*] When it gets the river 3 handed and I hold the nut low and I suspect there is a strong chance that one other villain also holds it, is the best strategy just to call bets on the river to avoid quartering or should I be aggressive and just recognize quartering as part of the price of admission?[/list]
Don't get to the river in the first place with a low only hand and only three people in the hand, if you missed your high hand draw so be it and take your quartering for as cheap as possible

I look forward to your replies and I am sure I will have more questions as time goes by.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a losing player so feel free to chop apart my suggestions [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[davebreal]

[ QUOTE ]
I recognize that a monster starting hand is something like AAK2 or AA23 double suited. However, is it worth seeing a flop with a hand like KKQJ double suited? What is the cut-off for high card only hands or should I just be dumping them? Assume that I play in a donk fest home game where it's 6 to the flop and everyone chases everything.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.erhutchison.com/OmahaSystem.html

[4_2_it]

dave,

Thanks for the link! Even someone with as feeble a mind as mine can understand it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Drizz,

Usually pot limit.

[Drizztdj]

A bet on the end usually means (at least in lower stakes) what the board the representing (straight, flush, trips).

Absent of villian reads, its usually better to pass on a pot-sized river bet with a weak hand such as TP or low/mid two pair unless you're doing so to gain information versus win the pot.

[I dunno]

[ QUOTE ]
I seem to be constantly missing value calls on the turn when the river is a high card and my TP hand would have swept. When the board does not have a low and you hold TP, what kind of pot odds do you need to call a bet (sorry if this is basic, but I warned you I was a noob)? I just don't have a 'feel' for how strong hands like TP or mid 2-pair are in a 3 handed pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really need to give some hand examples and a little info about your opponents, but I wouldn't consider it a value call with just TP in PL on the end unless you are playing someone that frequently bluffs on the end.

Like if the board is K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

and you hold TPTK, then is is a prime pick off spot against somebody that pushes their draws hard and will bluff on the end.

If the board reads J 5 8 K Q, I would need to be pretty confident to call with QJ or Q8.

[ QUOTE ]
When it gets the river 3 handed and I hold the nut low and I suspect there is a strong chance that one other villain also holds it, is the best strategy just to call bets on the river to avoid quartering or should I be aggressive and just recognize quartering as part of the price of admission?

[/ QUOTE ]

The river isn't the time to knock out a duplicated low. If you want to knock them off then the time to do it would be the flop or turn, but it would be a huge mistake to do so with out a hand with good scoop potential.

A situation where I might do this would be when I have seen somebody stack off before with a middle straight and no low, and my other opponent is pretty tight. Then I might raise to knock off the rock so I can free-roll the guy holding an 8 high straight with my backdoor flush draws or bottom two or whatever. This isn't something I do very often though, and it's mostly just for image.

[Jorge10]

[ QUOTE ]
I recognize that a monster starting hand is something like AAK2 or AA23 double suited. However, is it worth seeing a flop with a hand like KKQJ double suited? What is the cut-off for high card only hands or should I just be dumping them? Assume that I play in a donk fest home game where it's 6 to the flop and everyone chases everything.


[/ QUOTE ]

KKQJ is a good hand to take a flop with a lot of players because it usually will win the whole pot.

The lowest connected high card hand I play is Q/J/10/9. The lowest high pair I play would be a good pair of 10's. By good I mean something like 10/10/X/X with the X being J or higher.

[ QUOTE ]
I seem to be constantly missing value calls on the turn when the river is a high card and my TP hand would have swept. When the board does not have a low and you hold TP, what kind of pot odds do you need to call a bet (sorry if this is basic, but I warned you I was a noob)? I just don't have a 'feel' for how strong hands like TP or mid 2-pair are in a 3 handed pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

PL or Limit? This type of question is a feel question. You have to have good reads on someone to call down with TP. If you just decide that you will call down with TP everytime you have it or feel the pot is a good size you will lose quite a bit.

[ QUOTE ]
When it gets the river 3 handed and I hold the nut low and I suspect there is a strong chance that one other villain also holds it, is the best strategy just to call bets on the river to avoid quartering or should I be aggressive and just recognize quartering as part of the price of admission?


[/ QUOTE ]

Limit or PL? In limit just call. In PLO8 the answer is complex and dependant on what type of river hit and how strong you believe the guy betting is.

[PorkPieHat]

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When it gets the river 3 handed and I hold the nut low and I suspect there is a strong chance that one other villain also holds it, is the best strategy just to call bets on the river to avoid quartering or should I be aggressive and just recognize quartering as part of the price of admission?

At this point the question you should be asking yourself is, Why am I here at the end of this hand with nothing but a low? That is the key to your answer. If you have been calling/chasing the low all along then you are likely spewing at some point.

6 handed it's ok to play for the low half of the pot, but not heads up or 3 handed. You need something to come along for the ride. That something can be as weak as top pair at times vs certain opponents, but you have to have something.

In the example you gave, I'd call it unless I felt that I could push a likely weak high out and have a shot at 3/4ing the other low. If the board makes a str8 and flush and all I have is nut low with dookie, then I call. If the board is raggy and I have top pair or a weak 2 pr then I raise against most.

[prodonkey]

Read the FAQ noob? lol