Live Final Table Question - still kicking myself

FyteOn · #1 03-02-2007, 06:35 PM

200+ person tournament, final table. Blinds are 2000-4000 and I have about 30,000. 9 left, avg stack about 40,000. 2nd chip leader is to my right with about 80,000 as it's a pretty balanced table. I'm on the button, the table folds to player on my right who makes it 13,000. He's pretty loose with a big stack as I've played with him many times. I look down at 8-8 and go all in. He goes in the tank for about 4 minutes, counts his chips as calls with a-9o. Ace hits on the turn and I'm out in 9th.

I've been kicking myself all day because I can't decide if I played the hand wrong. If I call the 13,000 I leave myself with 17,000 that I can fold if the flop looks ugly for my 8s. If I go all in he doesn't have great fold equity as he has to call 17,000 more into 49,000 pot. But I didn't put him on a big hand but more like k-j or ace-rag.

The other thought I had was that I might as well try to make him fold pre-flop because he was first to act and he might just put me all-in regardless of the flop which is his M.O.

How should I have played that? Flop came Q-2-5.

Fiksdal · #2 03-02-2007, 06:46 PM

First of all, this is a push/fold situation for you. You only have 7.5 big blinds, and it would have been a push/fold situation even if nobody had raised in front of you. Calling to see a flop here is out of the question given stack sizes.

Against an unknown, and with your stack, this is an easy push. Against the kind of villain you described, this is a no-brainer super easy push.

The villain made a correct call with A9o, getting almost 3 to 1, he could have called with almost any two here.

However, he could easily have had a hand that you were 80% or 70% against. (A7 and 77 are definitley in the opening range of a loose player from the cuttoff here) You could have been lucky and faced one of these hands. You weren't you were facing a coinflip. And you happened to lose that one too. This was variance, and your play was 100% standard.

Btw, don't post results, and don't worry too much about them when it is clear you made the right play either.

And welcome to the MTT forum.

holdemft · #3 03-02-2007, 06:49 PM

It might be a balanced table, but you've only got 7BBs(M-5) so you are not in a comfortable position. CO could easily be on a steal, so push is good. IMO I think he made a really loose call PF with A9o even with the odds.

Fiksdal · #4 03-02-2007, 06:57 PM

Holdemft

Villain has a call here even if OP shows him a hand like AK.

Cornell Fiji · #5 03-02-2007, 07:45 PM

Welcome to the forums!

This is a pretty standard push. A fold could be considered if the villain had a tight image and raised UTG but as played he could very well be on a straight steal and there is a lot of money to be made through your fold equity

As is you got your money in as a 56/44 favorite with 6,000 dead money in the pot (plus any antes) plus you had significant fold equity.

Good play.

Please do not post results in the future

BlueEcho · #6 03-02-2007, 07:55 PM

I agree this is a standard push, but disagree that you have much in the way of "signficant" fold equity. Villian is getting almost 3-1 to call us here.

Cornell Fiji · #7 03-02-2007, 07:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree this is a standard push, but disagree that you have much in the way of "signficant" fold equity. Villian is getting almost 3-1 to call us here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct. I thought both players had 40k.

Even so this is a live tournament and the villain will see calling as almost death to his stack. Bad live players are generally nits who don't understand math and who are afraid to play for their tournament life so we are probably getting a fold at least 1/3 of the time here sans a read that the origional raiser is a competent player

BlueEcho · #8 03-02-2007, 08:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Even so this is a live tournament and the villain will see calling as almost death to his stack. Bad live players are generally nits who don't understand math and who are afraid to play for their tournament life so we are probably getting a fold at least 1/3 of the time here sans a read that the origional raiser is a competent player

[/ QUOTE ]

Now this I agree with!!

Fiksdal · #9 03-02-2007, 08:14 PM

Yeah we might have fold equity here, people are stupid and don't understand pot odds.

FyteOn · #10 03-02-2007, 09:12 PM

Thank you all. I've been reading the site for years and have never registered or posted but this particular play has been gnawing at me. I only play live and from my experience the fold rate is even higher than 1/3 even in a situation like that one. But I'm always trying to improve my game and wanted to make sure I made the "right" play.

Next time I won't post the results - I should have read the FAQs!