Why call a raise then bet out on next street instead of 3 betting?

[rubixxcube]

I've been playing holdem for a fair amount of time, 10/20 live mostly. Often times i will raise somebody and then a seemingingly innocuous card comes out on the next street and the person bets right into you again. Most of the time it confuses me and i'm not sure at all where i stand or what that card did for the person.
Example.

I have something like, KQ and limped or raised preflop, doesn't matter for this post.

Any way, flop comes something like Q 8 4 Rainbow. Someone bets the flop(not one of the blinds), i raise, they call. Then the turn is an offsuit 2 for example and they bet out again?

Is there a reason for something like this? Is it that they think their hand is good again? I know that this can be very situation dependant, but when the card does not go with the board it throws me for a loop. If it make a straight, flush, or is a likely kicker to go with top pair that makes sense but in the above situation i think "HUH?"

Lastly, what are some situations in which you would call a raise then bet out on the next street instead of just 3 betting on the first street and leading again on the next street? I am also assuming that you DO NOT improve on the next street. I ask this as i ahve read some threads on this board where people ask what to do on a flop when raised and i noticed sometimes that People say, "3 town for sure" but then others say call and bet out the turn if its a rag.

Wouldn't you want to 3 bet the flop to charge them for a draw for example by 3 betting instead of calling and only betting out if the draw doesn't come in on the turn? isn't this the theory of charging for the draw? Maybe i am off base here so if someone could clarify some situations in which it would be better to call and bet out instead of 3 betting please share.
Thanks,
Ruby

[rubixxcube]

This came to mind after reading some responses to this thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0#Post9387213

[CardSharpCook]

I rarely ever do this. Occasionally I do this HU or 3handed just to "mix up my game". The other rare times are when I think I have the best made hand on the flop, but he could very easily have more equity than me (ie flush draw with overs) and he is the type of player that actually takes his free card instead of continuing to fire. I'd also do this against a guy who frequently goes bet crazy on the flop, but then checks the turn because he wants to get to showdown cheaply. I don't want to go bet crazy myself, but I'm not going to let him steal all my value. So I just call on the flop and then fire on the turn.

Nice post. I look forward to reading more replies.

[n.s.]

I don't do this very often, although I suspect I should do it a little bit more.

Here are some times when I'd make this play.

-If the board is drawy, the pot isn't too big, and I have a mediocre made hand. For example, if I get a free play from the BB with Q7o and bet out on a QTx double-suited board, and get raised by the button (preferably with no callers in between). If the button is the type to make a free card play, I'd bet out again on a blank turn. This way I avoid putting too much money in the pot with a weak hand (especially if my opponent is capable of capping the flop for a free card), I protect against the free card play, and I can just let it go if the turn comes bad for my hand and my opponent bets again. Finally, it's an easy fold to a turn raise.

-When I have a very strong hand against an aggressive player, who I suspect also had a good hand. Suppose I flop a set and bet out and get raised. If I call and check-raise the turn, the aggro player will usually shut down, even with something like TPTK. However, the turn stop-n-go will feel strange, and aggro player will often pop me again, allowing me to 3-bet. (However, if I suspect that my opponent is very strong, it's usually best to just 3-bet and lead the turn, because in this case he'll often call the 3-bet and raise the turn anyway)

-Similiar to above, when I've got a big hand and lots of callers in between me and the raiser. Suppose I flop a set, bet out, get 3 callers, and then the button raises. If I think the callers are capable of folding for 2 more, then the best play is to call the raise and the bet out the turn, trapping the callers for even more bets and hopefully getting to 3-bet the button.

The first and third examples here are straight out of HPFAP, IIRC.

[LoosenUp]

In the scenerio you gave, i tend to raise that turn
and fold to a 3-bet

More often then not it is a weak Q that doesn't want to give you free card or has decided to take back the lead.

If it was a strong hand on a near drawless board like the one described, they will call then checkraise the turn, not donk it.

a heavy draw board it could mean something different, though.

[andyfox]

"Then the turn is an offsuit 2 for example and they bet out again? Is there a reason for something like this? Is it that they think their hand is good again?"

They'll put you on A-K or J-T, feeling you were raising the flop for a free card. They wait 'til a safe card comes on the turn.

[Hass]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't do this very often, although I suspect I should do it a little bit more.

Here are some times when I'd make this play.

-If the board is drawy, the pot isn't too big, and I have a mediocre made hand. For example, if I get a free play from the BB with Q7o and bet out on a QTx double-suited board, and get raised by the button (preferably with no callers in between). If the button is the type to make a free card play, I'd bet out again on a blank turn. This way I avoid putting too much money in the pot with a weak hand (especially if my opponent is capable of capping the flop for a free card), I protect against the free card play, and I can just let it go if the turn comes bad for my hand and my opponent bets again. Finally, it's an easy fold to a turn raise.

-When I have a very strong hand against an aggressive player, who I suspect also had a good hand. Suppose I flop a set and bet out and get raised. If I call and check-raise the turn, the aggro player will usually shut down, even with something like TPTK. However, the turn stop-n-go will feel strange, and aggro player will often pop me again, allowing me to 3-bet. (However, if I suspect that my opponent is very strong, it's usually best to just 3-bet and lead the turn, because in this case he'll often call the 3-bet and raise the turn anyway)

-Similiar to above, when I've got a big hand and lots of callers in between me and the raiser. Suppose I flop a set, bet out, get 3 callers, and then the button raises. If I think the callers are capable of folding for 2 more, then the best play is to call the raise and the bet out the turn, trapping the callers for even more bets and hopefully getting to 3-bet the button.

The first and third examples here are straight out of HPFAP, IIRC.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm shocked to hear that most people don't do this often. I use the first one quite often in that situation. Maybe too much?