Flopped set on suited flop.

SpartMan1 · #1 03-01-2007, 02:44 AM

I'm curious as to what other people think about this common situation. The specific hand that triggered it today was this: (couldn't get a converter to convert it, sorry)

I'm sitting at $.10/$.25 NL 6 max table, first hand dealt to me. I've got $25, all other players in the hand have me covered.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] , 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG folds.
MP Raises to $.85
CO calls.
SB folds.
Button calls.
Hero calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)

Hero checks.
UTG+1 bets $3.50.
CO folds.
Button folds.
Hero raises $10 to $13.50.

Considering that this is the very first hand I'm dealt, I have absolutely no reads. My thoughts up to this point were this: after the flop, I check because I don't want to bet and get called by multiple players and have to deal with a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn from OOP. I feel a c/r is a good move because if it checks through, I get my free boat shot, or I can make an easy fold if a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn brings lots o' action. If someone does bet, I can raise and maybe take the pot down. If I raise and get pushed, I'll be getting better than 3:1 on my money, and be no worse than a 2:1 dog (obviously ruling out that MP raised with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]).

Do you agree with my thinking? What if the CO or Button had called? What if I were on the button instead of in the BB?

PietM · #2 03-01-2007, 03:54 AM

I think I would still bet out here. I'd make a potsize bet. Checkraising is a possible option, like you did. If CO and/or Button would've called a push seems an option. Not sure if that gets called by anything but a made flush though...

eigenvalue · #3 03-01-2007, 04:02 AM

No, I always lead out with a huge overbet (150% of the pot or more) because I want to protect my very strong hand and charge any player with a flush draw. If that bet is called or reraised all-in, I go all the way because I can redraw to the nuts in the unlikely event that someone else has a flopped flush. But people will call my overbet a lot with draws and make a huge mistake in calling me.

IN POKER, THERE ARE SPOTS WHEN YOU HAVE TO BE BRAVE AND NOT TO BE SCARED.

freedom18 · #4 03-01-2007, 04:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No, I always lead out with a huge overbet (150% of the pot or more) because I want to protect my very strong hand and charge any player with a flush draw. If that bet is called or reraised all-in, I go all the way because I can redraw to the nuts in the unlikely event that someone else has a flopped flush. But people will call my overbet a lot with draws and make a huge mistake in calling me.

IN POKER, THERE ARE SPOTS WHEN YOU HAVE TO BE BRAVE AND NOT TO BE SCARED.

[/ QUOTE ]

then ur play becomes transparent IE if u hit a flush or are cbeting a flushed board... luckily our players arent that observant or are they...?

Sir Winalot · #5 03-01-2007, 04:47 AM

My thoughts in blue.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious as to what other people think about this common situation. The specific hand that triggered it today was this: (couldn't get a converter to convert it, sorry)

I'm sitting at $.10/$.25 NL 6 max table, first hand dealt to me. I've got $25, all other players in the hand have me covered.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] , 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG folds.
MP Raises to $.85
CO calls.
SB folds.
Button calls.
Hero calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] , 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)

Hero checks.
UTG+1 bets $3.50.
CO folds.
Button folds.
Hero raises $10 to $13.50.

Considering that this is the very first hand I'm dealt, I have absolutely no reads. My thoughts up to this point were this: after the flop, I check because I don't want to bet and get called by multiple players and have to deal with a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn from OOP. I would want to get as much money in on the flop before we get a turn card that either kills our action or destroys our hand. I feel a c/r is a good move because if it checks through, I get my free boat shot, or I can make an easy fold if a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn brings lots o' action. No. Getting this flop checked through would be a disaster. YOU are not getting any free cards, you are giving THEM free cards to hit their flush/straight. A c/r could be good because you have good relative position (preflop raiser is directly after you, so if he bets both CO and Button get a chanse to call before you raise), but there are a couple of thing that make me think leading is better: MP raised only 0.85 (nothing solid, obviously doesn't matter if the site you're playing on has a 'bet pot' button) and the flop is 4-way. Even the most stupid villains are somewhat reluctant to bet weak hands/bluffs into 4 players, and the play is usually so passive that we can't be sure he would bet a draw. If he in fact has a good hand like an overpair he's ready to felt, we're not losing much by him raising after our bet and CO and Button folding. If someone does bet, I can raise and maybe take the pot down. Ok. If I raise and get pushed, I'll be getting better than 3:1 on my money, and be no worse than a 2:1 dog (obviously ruling out that MP raised with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]). Yes, you have decent odds for a boat/quads and villains can have many worse hands here, mostly overpairs and combo draws (flushdraws with a 4-8 kicker.) 

Do you agree with my thinking? What if the CO or Button had called? Then I would have probably just pushed. What if I were on the button instead of in the BB? Raise. 

[/ QUOTE ]
I would probably lead the flop for a potsized bet.

iamVillaiNmo · #6 03-01-2007, 04:49 AM

I hate this spot.

You know why. Cause my dollas go in.

Piece of Cake · #7 03-01-2007, 04:55 AM

I think I typically squeeze here PreFlop.

As played, b3b push and ship the chips to the Ahigh flush.

SpartMan1 · #8 03-01-2007, 04:57 AM

I don't think its an issue of being scared, I think its more of an issue of getting my money in correctly. If I lead out the flop with a pot bet, and get one caller drawing to the flush, if the flush hits on the turn, then what? If I check to him and he makes any bet of half the pot or more, I'm incorrect to call to draw for my boat. But in the c/r situation I might get called by a flush draw, in which I can put my money in on the turn correctly even if a diamond comes. Does that make sense...or am I too tired to make coherent thoughts?

eigenvalue · #9 03-01-2007, 07:15 AM

Ok, put always in paranthesis. With 4 players still in the hand, a pot sized bet is to low. Depending on my mood, I might be inclined to shove the flop sometimes, especially if my reads tell me that there are 2 calling stations still in the pot. My expectation here is that 1 of them can't lay down his flush draw.

SpartMan1 · #10 03-01-2007, 02:44 PM

I kindof like the idea of shoving the flop, cause they might put me on something like 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8x. I think the most difficult part about that specific hand was the fact that I had no reads. I didn't know if the original raiser would continue (which turns out he would pot bet every turn when he raised preflop). Had I known he was passive, I like the ideas of opening with a large bet.