$500 Live Tournament, alot of mistakes made i'm thinking, help?

[the_doantster]

$500 Live Tournament

Blinds are 100-200 with 25 ante's

Started with 2000, I have about 2600, and my image is tight. I moved to the table about 30 minutes ago and only played 1 hand, pocket 10's utg, raised, no callers.

Villains

UTG (T 3300) is starting to play a loose aggressive game, since the start of this round he has changed gears and has been raising almost every other hand trying to steal the blinds, as opposed to playing a pretty tight game previous.

LP player (T 7000)seems to be an experienced knowledgeable tournament player, so far i've seen him limp with hands like A-K and 99, got raised all in and called....a few hands after this one he limped in mp with aces.

On to the hand

UTG raises to 600, LP thinks for about a minute and calls. It's up to me and I look down to see pocket 8's.

My line of thinking here was that I was pretty sure I had UTG beat, he's been raising so much and had to show down hands like 6-7 off suit, K-8s, so I wasn't really worried about him.

LP on the other hand, I was worried about his call, what does this mean? What kind of hand can he possibly call with here instead of raising? I'm thinking A-K, A-Q or maybe even A-J is a re-raise situation based on the situation and history of the UTG player, Suited connectors? Small Pair? Trapping with a big pair QQ-AA?

Also, I don't think LP was expecting me to call because up to this point my blinds have been raised every time and I surrendered.

I chose the safe road and called the raise and we went to the flop three handed.

2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

What's the best play here? I only have about 2000 now.

[kcbadbeat]

I think a call here is borderline pot commitment. If LP is a good tournament player, he could be calling raise with any two cards looking to outplay UTG after the flop. I think best play depends on how many are left in tournament and what payout is. If there is still a ways to go, I'd fold and wait for a better hand to attack with. There's too big a chance you are up against overcards and can be out drawn. On the bubble I'd push.

What was action to you post flop? I probably would have pushed if the flop was checked to me.

[the_doantster]

[ QUOTE ]


What was action to you post flop? I probably would have pushed if the flop was checked to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was still a long way to go, started with 650 + players, field was down to about 300+

When the flop came down I didn't take enough time to really analyze the situation, I just saw the flop, knew I had an over pair and checked, now that I'm thinking about this hand I know I made a mistake. I'm thinking a 500 bet sounds about right as a feeler yes?

I checked, UTG checked, LP player bet 1000.

Calling here was pretty much out of the question, it would leave me with only 1000 left, and the next hand was my SB. So it was either a push or fold.

[kcbadbeat]

My fault, I read your post wrong and didn't realize you were in a blind. I think you are right about a feeler bet. I think if Lp had a a large pocket pair he would have re-raised to isolate loose player pre-flop, big pairs are a lot better heads up.

[Cornell Fiji]

I can't imagine not pushing this preflop against a loose raiser and a big stack who knows that the other guy is a loose raiser. The only bad thing here is that the origional raiser was UTG and even loose players will have a tight UTG range. If you live read said that he was raising light then this is a very easy shove. If the other players have been paying attention and know you have played 1 hand all tournament then their calling range will be TT+/AK, maybe less (how many times do you see posts here about people wanting to fold JJ/QQ preflop, such donks do exist) If your reads are correct then this means that they are easily going to be folding often enough for you to be shoving here and adding 50% to your stack without a showdown.

I hate calling with your stack size. You do not have pot odds to flop a set. You are out of position which is going to make it a little bit tougher to extract value when you do flop a set and if you are going to stack of when you get a friendly flop like this one then you might as well shove pf and have JQs or 99 make an incorrect fold. You don't have odds to try to flop a set and you don't seem comfortable playing your one pair hand out of position for its one pair value. The call pf is bad.

A feeler bet is also wrong. Betting 500 into a pot of 1900 is borderline retarded. Sorry to be so harsh but its true. What do you really expect to fold getting 5:1 on their call? You are not getting anything that beats you to fold but you are also going to get called or raised by ANYTHING THAT THEY PUT 600 IN THE POT WITH PREFLOP and you are going to let those hands play you off the pot on the later streets. The correct play once you got to this point is to check raise all in but you should have never seen a flop with this hand.

[hagbard celine]

I have to agree with Cornell. A PF call is the worst play available to you in this situation.

If the table has 9 players, then your M is under 5, and with a loose player raising, and a big stack calling, the most FE you're going to get is PF (if in fact you're image is as tight as you say).

Like others have said, 88 at this stage in the tournament, with your stack, is not a hand that you want to see a flop with.

As I've read the post, the only options that I see available to you are a fold, or a push PF to isolate against one opponent. This is not a hand to go to a flop three handed (also, what is YOUR position? are you in the blind, or CO? or button? you don't say).

[omaha]

550+600+600+2600 = 4150 in pot if you push

Assuming utg folds, original caller needs to put in 2000, so is getting 2-1 odds.

Is there anything that a decent player will call an utg raise with, then fold, getting 2-1 on his money

If we were a bit deeper, i would love the push, but i dont think you have enough fe in this scenario

[HojoMofo]

Stop and go seems fine here as played , push flop. Checkraising will commit whoever and I'd rather not see two more cards. If you feel like doubling up or finding something else to do I might push preflop, depending on what I thought the table required. I dont think flatcalling is as horrible as people are making it out to be, though pushing preflop is better given your reads.

[betgo]

Given your reads, I probably push preflop. Just based on the action, I may fold. Flat calling is not safer than pushing, but is not necessarily worse than pushing.

As played, I check the flop and checkraise allin. You could also lead out or open push with the money this shallow.

[nath]

i'd probably shove preflop, and i'd probably shove flop (i don't really expect a worse hand to call, but you have a chance to double up without showdown and you don't want it to check through and hit a bad card).