25NL - Flopped boat, slowplay gone bad?

Maple Leafs · #1 02-21-2007, 01:01 PM

I know, I know, I was shocked too. A slowplay going wrong? That never happens!

Walk through this debacle with me. Be gentle...

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG+1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 3 folds, 3 folds, BB raises to $0.75, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

BB is 13/7 over a small sample of hands. Standard call here?

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($2.35, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Here's the slowplay. I'm not convinced this is terrible. With this board, there's at least decent flush and straight possibilities. If I'm up against 88 then I'm getting stacked but that seems like a reasonable risk.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($2.35, 3 players)
BB bets $1, Hero calls, MP3 calls.

Not a bad card. I'm behind TT now too, but the straight could be out there (or at least getting closer). I stay in check/call mode here and hope to see something like the 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the river.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($5.35, 3 players)
BB bets $2, Hero raises to $5, MP3 folds, BB raises all-in $20.5, Hero ???

Not a great card, but if someone was hanging around with AK I could get some value here. I re-raise to spring the trap, and sit back and wait for... oh holy hell. That isn't good.

So, after you're done gouging your eyes out with a bottle opener, what do you do? This sure smells like TT or KK. We're getting 2-1 on a call, do you think we see something like AA, AK, A8, QJ, etc., enough to justify a call? Remember, BB raised pf so most of those hands don't look likely.

Lay it down?

sebbb · #2 02-21-2007, 01:12 PM

preflop: I usually open raise any pocket pair but I play 6max so I don't know what the standard line is in early position in FR; as played I call against decent stacks

post flop: as played I don't fold the river. I think you're overestimating the chances of seeing TT or KK

KJatl · #3 02-21-2007, 01:14 PM

Checking the flop is fine. I would raise the turn simply to try to build the pot a bit. You flat call because you're afraid of TT? That's waaaay too nitty. Raise raise raise. As played I call the river. I think BB would cbet that flop with TT or KK, likely much more concerned with the draws than someone having an 8 or a boat.

TheRenaissance · #4 02-21-2007, 01:14 PM

Preflop is ok, full ring and all.
Slowplaying flop is ok, but betting is better.
If you bet smallish they will still have "odds" to continue,
AND you build the pot.
Raise the turn. Please.
You beat AA on the river, so call.
Why would villain check flop with an overpair?
AA/KK ok, but TT?
That is suicide in a multiway pot with a wet board, and most people just dont do it.

Maple Leafs · #5 02-21-2007, 01:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You flat call because you're afraid of TT?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, I flat call because I'm a donkey and I love me some slowplay.

Nick C · #6 02-21-2007, 01:22 PM

I think preflop is fine.

BB's flop check is a disappointment, but people don't lay down draws in NL25, and I think you should start trying to build a pot. That's not the way to make money versus BB's probable big overcards, I know, but MP3 is in the hand too, and if he happens to have a draw (certainly not out of the question on this board) it'd be nice to make money from him whether he catches or not (instead of just if he catches). And maybe BB will even peel one off with AK.

On the river, I guess you probably are screwed, but I don't think I could lay my hand down. Unless he was going for a flop checkraise or the paired board scared him, his flop check seems weird if he has TT or KK. Plus, I'm just not good at folding boats.

Maple Leafs · #7 02-21-2007, 03:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BB's flop check is a disappointment, but people don't lay down draws in NL25, and I think you should start trying to build a pot. That's not the way to make money versus BB's probable big overcards, I know, but MP3 is in the hand too, and if he happens to have a draw (certainly not out of the question on this board) it'd be nice to make money from him whether he catches or not (instead of just if he catches). And maybe BB will even peel one off with AK.

[/ QUOTE ]
What would you bet on the flop? Pot it?

Nick C · #8 02-21-2007, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BB's flop check is a disappointment, but people don't lay down draws in NL25, and I think you should start trying to build a pot. That's not the way to make money versus BB's probable big overcards, I know, but MP3 is in the hand too, and if he happens to have a draw (certainly not out of the question on this board) it'd be nice to make money from him whether he catches or not (instead of just if he catches). And maybe BB will even peel one off with AK.

[/ QUOTE ]
What would you bet on the flop? Pot it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, probably, but betting less in an effort to keep AK in is a serious consideration, I think. A smaller bet won't look especially suspicious or anything either since underbetting with marginal hands is so popular at NL25 tables. (Well, it is at Stars, anyway. I'd imagine it also is at Full Tilt.)

Maple Leafs · #9 02-21-2007, 05:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
(Well, it is at Stars, anyway. I'd imagine it also is at Full Tilt.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, FTP is pretty similar.

I have to keep reminding myself to bet my big hands. I think there's a place for the slowplay but I consistently wait until the river to bet, which is (usually) wrong. If I bet this on the turn, anyone with a flush draw or oesd will probably come along thinking they have implied odds. Instead I wait until they've all missed their draws to start firing. Ugh.

fsista · #10 02-21-2007, 06:08 PM

Uhm... Call... Btw, all streets are bad in my opinion. (Unless not raising utg+1 with 99 is standard full ring).

This is a terrible spot to slowplay. Fortunately for your opponents, you still do it even though you know it's wrong.

Without taking away those leaks you won't win any money long term. Good luck.

River is INSTACALL.