AA check, and call

Schneids · #1 02-20-2007, 07:36 PM

Happened many days ago, Commerce $400/800.

I'm UTG and running super [censored] vs many opponents who are probably aware of that. I've often meakly called down with whatever, and lost to their slightly better hands, and have been playing very passively postflop, as often happens when running not well...

Anyway, UTG in a full game, I raise red AA.

Devon (SavageGamble) cold calls in MP. IMO Devon is one of the better LHE players around, fwiw. He doesn't cold call too many hands, so, I am guessing he is making a call with a hand he'd normally fold, but is playing because he wants to play pots vs me while I'm running poorly.

Flop JJ3. I bet, Devon calls.

Turn 5. I check, Devon bets, I call.

This is how it's been going a lot of times, so, I figure I may as well keep with the flow of the game and once again check and call this turn because that's what I've been doing all night long.

River 2. Board JJ352. I check, Devon again bets. I fumble around with my chips, consider a checkraise, then consider his hand range and what those hands will do vs a river checkraise, and call.

BK and I discussed this one and I've thought about it a lot and think in the given situation, my line is optimal to win the max and lose the least (with the basic assumption that no matter what, this hand is being shown down, so if say I were to checkraise the turn or river, that I'd call a 3bet and payoff).

Thoughts?

cdlarmore · #2 02-20-2007, 07:43 PM

I think you played to passively, especially with your read on his cold call because of his view of your table presence. At least I would like to see check/call, check call, bet and call a raise...
I mean are you really putting him on KJ,AJ that quickly here? I think he plays 10 10 - KK the same way...

Lets make an extra bet or 2 on this hand...
I personally bet bet bet call a raise...
cdl

Schneids · #3 02-20-2007, 07:45 PM

He doesn't have TT-KK here ever unless he thought he was open raising and didn't see my raise.

poker1O1 · #4 02-20-2007, 07:48 PM

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He doesn't cold call too many hands, so, I am guessing he is making a call with a hand he'd normally fold

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Nothing wrong w/ the line you took, although it'd be hard not to raise the river given that villian's range still appears wide.

PokerBob · #5 02-20-2007, 07:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Happened many days ago, Commerce $400/800.

I'm UTG and running super [censored] vs many opponents who are probably aware of that. I've often meakly called down with whatever, and lost to their slightly better hands, and have been playing very passively postflop, as often happens when running not well...

Anyway, UTG in a full game, I raise red AA.

Devon (SavageGamble) cold calls in MP. IMO Devon is one of the better LHE players around, fwiw. He doesn't cold call too many hands, so, I am guessing he is making a call with a hand he'd normally fold, but is playing because he wants to play pots vs me while I'm running poorly.

Flop JJ3. I bet, Devon calls.

Turn 5. I check, Devon bets, I call.

This is how it's been going a lot of times, so, I figure I may as well keep with the flow of the game and once again check and call this turn because that's what I've been doing all night long.

River 2. Board JJ352. I check, Devon again bets. I fumble around with my chips, consider a checkraise, then consider his hand range and what those hands will do vs a river checkraise, and call.

BK and I discussed this one and I've thought about it a lot and think in the given situation, my line is optimal to win the max and lose the least (with the basic assumption that no matter what, this hand is being shown down, so if say I were to checkraise the turn or river, that I'd call a 3bet and payoff).

Thoughts?

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i don't see the point in raising the river. What does he have that will pay you? 77? I kinda doubt that.

given your image, and the fact that you never have anything, i think he will find folds to any aggression. you either have him crucified, or he has a jack. let him barrell away.

baronzeus · #6 02-20-2007, 07:57 PM

this line is fine. checking the turn is clearly better than betting imo. the only question is whether or not to checkraise the river in case he has a hand like 65s or something, but i think (given his coldcall preflop) those types of hands are about as likely as Jx hands so its a standard river

baronzeus · #7 02-20-2007, 07:58 PM

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given your image, and the fact that you never have anything, i think he will find folds to any aggression.

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disagree, usually when someones running bad they try to make plays with garbage (ie checkraising air on rivers) to compensate for never having anything. he wont find a fold here with 77 or 65s.

PokerBob · #8 02-20-2007, 08:03 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
given your image, and the fact that you never have anything, i think he will find folds to any aggression.

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disagree, usually when someones running bad they try to make plays with garbage (ie checkraising air on rivers) to compensate for never having anything. he wont find a fold here with 77 or 65s.

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OK, but Mike's line smells like BS and Devon likely knows it. It sure would suck to get 3bet, as it may very well be a "I know you don't have [censored], so I'm 3betting you with my garbage." I don't want to be put in that spot, especially when I'm running bad and my decision making may be rattled.

cdlarmore · #9 02-20-2007, 08:03 PM

Throw me a range then, because based on what your saying, your putting him on AJ, or KJ ONLY but not 1010+, I guess i am missing something, based on your table image, that is the range I am giving him, AJ+, 99+. all of which he plays about the same way...

If your assuming he would RR with those hands consider he realizes he shouldnt be calling in the first place, but he wants to much it up with you a bit at this point because he thinkgs your playing like crud. He may figure he can disguise his hand a little and pick a spot later, or just get away with calling a little loosely (aj or kj).
I hope I learn alot from this post because I seem to be way off base but i dont understand why.
I think you lost at least 1 bet, and played AA fairly weak imo. Hope I can learn from further discussion on this one.

baronzeus · #10 02-20-2007, 08:05 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
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given your image, and the fact that you never have anything, i think he will find folds to any aggression.

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disagree, usually when someones running bad they try to make plays with garbage (ie checkraising air on rivers) to compensate for never having anything. he wont find a fold here with 77 or 65s.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, but Mike's line smells like BS and Devon likely knows it. It sure would suck to get 3bet, as it may very well be a "I know you don't have [censored], so I'm 3betting you with my garbage." I don't want to be put in that spot, especially when I'm running bad and my decision making may be rattled.

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yeah, i definitely agree that checkraising here is not +EV