AK in huge pot w/ tons of action

Newtown · #1 02-20-2007, 07:30 AM

CO is a good lag (32/20/2) but everyone else is completely unknown. I'm not sure what to put either of the unknowns on given the pf action.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, CO raises, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls, CO caps, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (24 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG calls, MP folds, CO 3-bets, Button folds, Hero calls, BB caps, UTG calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (20 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG raises, CO calls, Hero...??

Veron · #2 02-20-2007, 07:47 AM

Easy Fold.

UTG's play really screams monster here. CCalling the flop, and raising the turn after flop gets capped.

Also your likely behind to BB's range. I expect him to have KT, 33 or TT a lot of the time.

Did I already mention CO? If he is good, he has AK or AA pretty much allways

Kvacke · #3 02-20-2007, 08:09 AM

You are drawing dead on the turn. 100% Fold. Already on the flop you look clearly beat when CO threebets. Its possible he has AK also and the pot is big so Im not completely sure there. When the flop is capped you dont feel good with one pair here.

W. Deranged · #4 02-20-2007, 11:30 AM

Flop: Why aren't you check-raising here? Betting basically gives up total control of the hand, loses value when CO has a hand like JJ-QQ, and loses a valuable opportunity to protect against gutshots and middle pairs which are getting fantastic odds from this long pot.

Turn: This is a super-easy fold. UTG has precisely 33 here like 85% of the time, and other monsters 14% of the time.

nickg1532 · #5 02-20-2007, 01:12 PM

i c/r flop. as played def. fold turn.

Thorv · #6 02-20-2007, 01:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Easy Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Newtown · #7 02-20-2007, 05:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: Why aren't you check-raising here? Betting basically gives up total control of the hand, loses value when CO has a hand like JJ-QQ, and loses a valuable opportunity to protect against gutshots and middle pairs which are getting fantastic odds from this long pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry forgot to mention I'd seen CO raise the flop on a similar board multiway with an underpair and thought I could 3-bet here.

The results are kind of funny:
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, CO raises, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls, CO caps, Button calls, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Flop: (24 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG calls, MP folds, CO 3-bets, Button folds, Hero calls, BB caps, UTG calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (20 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG raises, CO calls, Hero folds, BB calls.

River: (26 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, CO calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 29 BB

Results below:
BB has Ac As (one pair, aces).
UTG has Td 9d (one pair, tens).
CO has Kc Ah (one pair, kings).
Outcome: BB wins 29 BB.

W. Deranged · #8 02-21-2007, 11:00 AM

Wow... UTG kind of lost his mind here.

In my opinion, I don't think that this is the correct situation for a bet-three-bet. Even if you think you are getting a three-bet in a pretty good percentage of the time, you are getting in a check-raise ALL the time, and you are simply taking too large a risk by betting out and risking allowing both your opponents to see a turn for a single bet in this size pot. If your opponent has QQ, JJ, 99, etc. and UTG overcalls your flop bet, even laggy opponents will often freeze up and fail to raise. There is also tons of value to be gained in getting UTG to fold any number of 2-5 out hands, and I think due to pot size we should be focusing on that rather than trying to generate chip volume with one pair.

Nick C · #9 02-21-2007, 11:39 AM

What's interesting to me is that, as absurd as UTG's turn raise looks, if he somehow knew that he was up against one-pair hands that were going to keep on raising to charge the chasers in this huge multiway pot, then, well, the turn raise is one way to put that to a stop and chase 5 outs relatively cheaply.

But, of course, he could easily be up against more than one pair instead, and if he's not, the raising may finally be about to come to a stop anyway. BB is acting like he has a very strong hand, and it's entirely possible the other players will recognize this and the action will now slow down.

Apanage · #10 02-21-2007, 05:07 PM

Easy fold.