$100 NL A9s checkup hand

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

Okay I'm trying to learn/play a little no limit. I don't claim to be much good so I might post a couple of things for a check-up. This was a hand played at the Majestic Star in suburban Chicago. $1/2 blinds, $100 buy-in, all participants in this hand have stacks of about $120. My image is tight-solid but not tight-nitty.

I have A9s UTG and raise to $7. Terrible LAG black dude and some goofy hick kid call in the SB and BB respectively. Pot is $21.

Flop is 966 rainbow, with one card matching my suits. Black dude leads out for $20. His range here is any decent nine, something like 87, medium pairs, complete air, in roughly that order. Trips are possible but not likely; he's a little tricky but I'm fairly sure would slowplay on a board looking like this. Something like TT or JJ is also possible.

Hick kid calls the $20. He's bad too and his range is probably about the same as SB's, although with the air removed and a somewhat higher probability of a 6. He's definitely loose enough to have played 76s and A6s preflop, maybe some other possibilities but I'm not sure.

I make it $60 to go, intending to fold to a shove.

Standard or would a call be better? I have my reasons, but I'll wait on giving those.

[orange]

PF cant be that great if your playing with 50bbs/at a live table with tons of stations.

i think raise/folding this flop is horrible. your turning your hand into a pure bluff if so. i think that you should either decide whether or not your going to go with this hand. with stacks so short and with players described, i probably either shove or fold. i dont like calling as much with 2 others in/me not dictating the action.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
PF cant be that great if your playing with 50bbs/at a live table with tons of stations.

i think raise/folding this flop is horrible. your turning your hand into a pure bluff if so. i think that you should either decide whether or not your going to go with this hand. with stacks so short and with players described, i probably either shove or fold. i dont like calling as much with 2 others in/me not dictating the action.

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing I forgot to mention is how unsophisticated this game is. The chance of these players coming over the top with anything that doesn't crush me is very minimal.

[Spy Dog]

I don't like preflop.

I'd rather limp this and hope that I start a limpfest and then play for a huge flop.

Too often your $7 raise will get called in 3-5 places and you will be out of position postflop with no fold equity.

Hitting TPTK in a shortstack situation is enough for me to push the flop.

[NoahSD]

Raising here is usually bad because you let them get away from most worse hands and lose more to better hands. It's pretty rare that people are loose/passive enough to make this good.

Also, raising half your stack and then folding to a shove is rarely the correct play. Stack sizes are really important in NL. Here, you're definitely short enough (less than twice the pot left in a 3 way pot) to get it all in without raising, so let them do the betting so that air and some of the weaker 9s can stick around.

Basically, you played this like a limit hand.

Edit: also preflop is bad unless it's like 6-handed.

[True]

call and then call/fold turn depending on what you think players ranges become.

We can raise the flop but we have to really call a shove. Our hand is good but we don't want to give villains the opportunity to play well against us.

[tufat23]

wow i would seriosuly just shove

[Ginge]

If I make it $60 to go I'm gonna call a shove.

IMO benefits of raising are
- induce shove from 78
- get value from weaker 9 IF HE CALLS/SHOVES

If you think the small blind plays like this then a raise is good IMO (although if the big blind calls his shove then I think it's a fold).

The problem with raising for info in no limit is that it takes up so much of your stack that you are often pot committed anyway.

Basically in this case I think it comes down to how likely you are to get value from a worse hand. Based on your descriptions I probably raise to $60 and call a shove.

[josh_x]

PF depends on how many players there are at the table, in general is good/fine.

I would probably just call the flop and see what happens on the turn.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

Okay, I've read the replies and I'm not necessarily convinced that I made the wrong play.

What if we assume that a shove has only a 5% chance of being a worse hand? How does that change things?

I realize that this is complicated by the fact that I do have some outs against 6x. Maybe it's even close enough that the fact that I have a backdoor flush draw matters.